sincere question for theists and deists

[Stue Denim]

If i do sing in the shower its a cappella.

[Napoléon]

(20th June 2011 02:40)Nick_A Wrote:  Don't do it Stue. No matter how much they pressure you, don't become a normal member of the "Great Beast." What is the Beast you ask? Simone Weil gives a good description.

"The Great Beast is introduced in Book VI of The Republic. It represents the prejudices and passions of the masses. To please the Great Beast you call what it delights in Good, and what it dislikes Evil. In America this is called politics."

Do you really want to be a member of a group expressing its collective prejudices and passions? I hope not. Keep thinking in the shower. Once you are considered normal, it is all over.

Another loony talking jibberish? I thought we were full on the crazy train around here...

[Nick_A]

(20th June 2011 07:43)Stue Denim Wrote:  If i do sing in the shower its a cappella.

Yes, be creative. Even try singing in the shower with a cute blonde. Sometimes the harmonies can be outrageous.

[Welsh cake]

(19th June 2011 09:01)Stue Denim Wrote:  If the creator deity is infinitely intelligent, or in the case of deism, at least hyper intelligent enough to create the universe, does the creator even need to create?

Indeed, it presents a massive stumbling block for theism in general, if the god in question is wholly perfect, lacks nothing, is content and without desire or flaw (as they assert), then why the want or need to create anything at all?

A perfect god has no use for a universe.

[Arcos Plage]

(19th June 2011 09:01)Stue Denim Wrote:  A thought occurred to me whilst I was in the shower just now, was pondering on the deistic god.

If the creator deity is infinitely intelligent, or in the case of deism, at least hyper intelligent enough to create the universe, does the creator even need to create?

If the deity can conceive of an idea, can imagine it, can picture it, and is hyper/infinitely intelligent, what then is the difference between the god's imagination, and the actual resulting creation?

Once we pass a certain amount of intelligence (enough to know everything in this universe at any one time and extrapolate from there), the universe not being infinite and the deity being infinite (or at least smart enough) then I would propose that there is no need for an actual creation, it would already have happened in a mind of such magnitude.

Consider what it would mean to be hyper-intelligent outside the context of a physical Universe. It would mean possessing a great deal of capacity to calculate, possibly capacity to understand complex relationships, but in a circumstance where there was nothing to be calculated and no relationships to apply any understanding to. Imagine if I today gave you the capacity to memorise everything you read, and to synthesise completely and draw all possible cross-correlations and inferences. Not just for the development of factual knowledge, but to be able to conceive a limitless realm of new fiction and poetry and comedy, even. Then, supposing I had given you this ability, I locked you away from all reading material, or limited you to a few dull technical journals. I imagine you'd go mad for wanting access to the other materials you knew were out there -- even not knowing any work to be read especially, the knowledge that so much was out there which could be poured into your synthesis would drive you to want to find it and read it.

So here is a lone superpotent being of the sort capable of creating a Universe, possibly capable of engaging exactly such a synthesis of pieces of concrete information, but with literally no concrete information at all even existing. Hence, Pandeism -- this entity becomes a Universe governed by laws designed to cause complexity to arise and allowing complex seemingly distinct entitites to interact and create new forms of information, to experience things which might not even occur to a lone superpowerful being like feeling love and hate, fear, frustration, courage, contentment, triumph. Why do we go to horror movies? To feel fear. Why do we want to feel fear? Adreneline? Because it's there? Because we can? Whatever reason, it's precisely the sort of thing that would be denied to a Creator-power type entity.

[Stue Denim]

Gods driven to madness always were my favourite =)