This is Just Fucking Perfect....

[theVOID]

(18th July 2011 20:14)Moros Synackaon Wrote:  The issue with Libertarians in the US is their tepid if not accepting support of extreme far right social views.

Were they at least moderates when it comes to the actions of their party, I would call myself one.

However, the differences between ideological purity, as Void has laid out of what it should be, and the actual implementation keeps me firmly among the blue dog democrats.

Can you try and make a distinction between Libertarians the party and libertarians the political philosophy? I don't believe the party are at all accepting of social conservatism, it would mostly be the libertarian-leaning republicans who are involved in the GOP who are willing to compromise but It seems to me that they are not so much accepting of their social views as they are aware that they will be more easily able to make libertarians of conservatives than liberals - I would agree with that general principle (which is the core idea behind their campaign in the republican party), persuading someone who believes in free markets and individual responsibility that they have no business telling another person what to do with their personal life is MUCH easier than convincing someone who has a vision and agenda for an entire society that they have no business legislating their values and bringing about their personal utopia.

The legalisation of Gay Marriage is touted as an example of the liberalisation of the GOP by some acquaintances of mine who are members of the Libertarian party and seeing as the lawmakers themselves have claimed they lean libertarian I would say there is pretty good reason to assume that it is a successful campaign - One friend even went as far as to say that the a successful liberalisation of the republican party achieved by libertarians would be one of the biggest victories for social equality since Luther King, I don't know enough about it to accept his claim at face value though.

[Doubting Thomas]

Yes, back a number of years ago the Republican Party promoted themselves as being the party of self-reliance, smaller government, and lower taxes. All that's been thrown aside in favor of being the party of God, and all you hear from them nowadays is pro-God, anti-Islam, anti-abortion, anti-gay, pro-big business. Ever since the religious right took over the Republican Party, it's gone even further to the right from where it was and there's no sign it's ever going back. And I really don't think the teabaggers are libertarians, because they're really just the extreme right wing of the Republican Party. There's nothing libertarian about them since they're even more in favor of theocracy and banning anything they don't like, which is at the totally opposite end of the political spectrum of libertarianism.

[theVOID]

It seems we're of exactly the same mind when it comes to this subject, thought I don't think implying that the Tea Party are more right-wing economically than the LP is accurate, given the chance the Tea Party would give subsidies and limit the liabilities of any corporation willing to lick their asshole where as the LP would ideally be adamant about free markets.

[HeyItsZeus]

I know this isn't a reply to any of your posts but I thought I would use this thread to vent about something.

I'm tired of this bull shit political system we have in the U.S. In the U.S. we don't have parties that represent the ideas of the masses. We only have right and left... what about the different variations of ideologies? Libertarians in the U.S. vote Republican. Progressives in the U.S. vote Democratic. It doesn't make any sense to me!

My beef to pick is? We're fortunate enough to be born in a country where democracy exists and people waste their votes on falsely advertised parties. Why don't other groups come up and make a stand against the two major parties. The Republicans and Democrats have failed as parties, their reign needs to end!

[Doubting Thomas]

The problem is that the Democrat & Republican parties have convinced the majority of people that there are only two political parties in the U.S. They're the ones with all the political power & money. We do have numerous political parties across the spectrum, but the only the big two get regular recognition in the media. There may be a few independents in congress, but hardly any third party members. We haven't had a president who wasn't either Democrat or Republican for what, the past 100 years or more? No, I just looked it up, it was Millard Fillmore in 1850.

The problem is that the general public views a vote for a third-party candidate as wasting your vote. Which is going to be true as long as most of them keep thinking that way. And when the big two don't allow third party candidates to join political debates, it's not going to get any better.

[Minimalist]

Quote:Why don't other groups come up and make a stand against the two major parties.

Because if there is one thing that the republicans and democrats DO agree on it is that there should be two parties. This has led to a bizarre and nearly impenetrable wall of rules, regulations and laws at the state level (and all the states are different) which constitute a barrier to the formation of 3d parties. The main players are largely exempt from those rules because they wrote them to maintain the status quo.

[Moros Synackaon]

(19th July 2011 16:46)Minimalist Wrote:  Because if there is one thing that the republicans and democrats DO agree on it is that there should be two parties. This has led to a bizarre and nearly impenetrable wall of rules, regulations and laws at the state level (and all the states are different) which constitute a barrier to the formation of 3d parties. The main players are largely exempt from those rules because they wrote them to maintain the status quo.

In addition, any party that steals votes away from the larger Parties will only allow for a victory of the opposing bloc.

Ross Perot pretty much ensured a Democratic victory by swaying Libertarian/Deficit concerned people from the Republican party.

Ergo, any political progress made in forming a viable third party means at least four years of the opposing bloc sticking it's dick in your ear.

[theVOID]

If the progressives and libertarians both pulled away simultaneously though... the Dems would win because the LP are greater in number and would shed a good number of republican votes, the progressives would get some momentum as a movement that has had enough of their corporate cousins.

Come on Americans! You can do it!

*Somewhere on the other side of the universe, a recently completed impossibility detector explodes from an electrical surge*

[CharlieMilles]

OP is obviously a Packers fan.