Non-muslim terriorist kills 84 in Norway.

[Epimethean]

So, back on the topic of why christians do terrible things because their imaginary deity commands them to, and how this is either untrue because christians who do bad things must of necessity be no longer christian, or their imaginary god doesn't talk to them ...

[Judas BentHer]

(27th July 2011 01:52)Statler Waldorf Wrote:  First of all you obviously do not understand what Christian denominationalism means, none of them claim to be the only “true” faith, they just disagree on doctrinal issues or church government issues but they all agree on Christian dogma.

I've thought this for a great many of your posts now and this last one that I will indulge, confirms it. You're a Troll. Not a Christian. In fact, I'd go so far as to posit you are quite possibly an atheist, perhaps an atheist who is a member here and this is your sock account. Only the IP, if that, will show for sure. You know not even the basics of Christianity. You berate people who know more than you, like myself, thinking we'll take umbrage and retort to your disgraceful level and ignore the fact you know hardly anything about the faith you claim to defend here.

I wasn't going to do this. Howevever, it's not to educate you because you have no interest in learning what you so obviously, and with great regularity in this thread alone, demonstrate you know nothing about. Rather, this is offered to demonstrate that you, a Troll, are so inclined to flame baiting that you never think how easily your false empty claims can be proven as such.

Denominationalism

1. adherence to particular principles, esp to the tenets of a religious denomination; sectarianism
2. the tendency to divide or cause to divide into sects or denominations
3. division into denominations

Quote:Secondly, the 7 deadly sins never appear in the Bible.

Never? Never, ever? Oh, you must mean there's not a scripture that denotes a point by point list. No, that can not be your intention. My mistake. Because you said the 7 deadly sins never appear in the Bible. Or maybe you think that because there's not that list preceeded by something to the effect; "These are the 7 deadly sins ..."
Do you remember how many Theists here talk about context? And the alternative definition of a word, as opposed to that which may be said to take a verse proffered in a post out of context? "Deadly" is to be understood as transgressions that are fatal to spiritual progress. (The Seven Deadly Sins)
Now while there are some real Christians who will claim these sins don't truly threaten them because of Jesus sacrifice, that no sin is truly "deadly" to the Christian, i.e. any transgression that can be fatal to spiritual progress, the "word" says differently. Because after all, what is "sin"?

Romans 3:9-12 (KJV)

What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Unless of course a Christian , a real one, chooses not to accept that and then there's a solution to the problem. A verse that affords something they can live with, in denial at will, as a "Biblical Christian".
1 John 3:9
King James Version (KJV)
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Oh, drats! There's that pesky errancy issue again.

Matthew 12:31-32
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Quote:Lastly, given your worldview, why would all of those things (racism etc) be morally wrong? Please be specific because I am interested to hear how you determine wrong from right.

No you're not. As to the first part of your question, I can understand how you would need someone to do the legwork so as to provide your ignorance an answer even to that. However, that you would even ask how racism, bigotry, homophobia, etc... would be morally wrong allows one to infer you do not consider them to be so... Oh hell, you are a Biblical Chrisitan!

[Rhythm]

A well sourced wiki page is a wonderful thing.[/align]

[bozo]

(27th July 2011 04:08)Epimethean Wrote:  'First of all you obviously do not understand what Christian denominationalism means, none of them claim to be the only “true” faith, they just disagree on doctrinal issues or church government issues but they all agree on Christian dogma.'

Rubbish. They disagree to the point of claiming that only a select number from a select faith will get into heaven and that the rest will either go to purgatory or worse.

Didn't Rome abolish purgatory quite recently? I seem to remember Dawkins posing the question what happened to the unfortunate souls who were there??????

---

You are arrogant Stato by claiming to know god exists. Prove it!

[Judas BentHer]

No, the Rat declared there's no more Libo. (The edge of Hell)
His invisible friend must have sent an email.

Article
"The decision was taken after Benedict XVI was presented with Vatican studies that said there were “serious” grounds that such souls could go to heaven, rather than exist between heaven and hell as they have done for almost 800 years.


The 41-page report by the Vatican’s Theological Commission, which was compiled following a three-year study, said the concept was an “unduly restrictive view of salvation”. However, it added that baptism was the only way to remove the stain of original sin – which according to the Catholic faith all are born with – and urged parents to continue to baptise their children. "

[Rhythm]

You know whenever we get into a discussion of sectarianism, I've always thought it would be much more productive if two christians on these boards started a thread outlining the difference between their denominations, and why they felt those differences are important enough to deserve denomination in the first place. A christian can always assume some "body of christendom" in the presence of an atheist, it's a harder sell when there's a christian on the line with an opposing viewpoint.

[downbeatplumb]

There are plenty of christian terrorists.

Have you never heard of the IRA.

oh look there are quite a few christian terrorist movements.

I know you dont like wikipedia. but..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

[Statler Waldorf]

(27th July 2011 04:08)Epimethean Wrote:  Rubbish. They disagree to the point of claiming that only a select number from a select faith will get into heaven and that the rest will either go to purgatory or worse.

I am sorry but that's just flat out wrong Epim I am a Baptist and we do not believe that Methodists, Catholics, Presbyterians, Charismatic, or any other Christian denomination is not going to heaven. You are just plain ignorant on this issue I guess. I am giving s series of presentations this fall at several churches in my city. They range from charismatic to southern Baptist and I am welcomed to speak at all of them. All who possess saving faith in Christ go to heaven.

(27th July 2011 05:17)Judas BentHer Wrote:  

---

I've thought this for a great many of your posts now and this last one that I will indulge, confirms it. You're a Troll. Not a Christian. In fact, I'd go so far as to posit you are quite possibly an atheist, perhaps an atheist who is a member here and this is your sock account. Only the IP, if that, will show for sure. You know not even the basics of Christianity. You berate people who know more than you, like myself, thinking we'll take umbrage and retort to your disgraceful level and ignore the fact you know hardly anything about the faith you claim to defend here.

I wasn't going to do this. Howevever, it's not to educate you because you have no interest in learning what you so obviously, and with great regularity in this thread alone, demonstrate you know nothing about. Rather, this is offered to demonstrate that you, a Troll, are so inclined to flame baiting that you never think how easily your false empty claims can be proven as such.

Denominationalism

1. adherence to particular principles, esp to the tenets of a religious denomination; sectarianism
2. the tendency to divide or cause to divide into sects or denominations
3. division into denominations

---

You just proved my point! I love it when this happens, this whole time you have been claiming the shooter was a Christian simply because he claimed to be one, and then you say I am not one even though I claim to be one! Contradict yourself much?
As to your definition of denominationalism, that doesn’t dispute anything I said. Where in that definition does it say that all denominations believe they are the only true faith and the others are all going to hell? The answer is nowhere, because it’s simply not true. Take Presbyterians and Baptists for example, two of the oldest and most popular protestant denominations. Why did they split in the first place? They disagree on how the church government should be set up, and credo vs. paedo baptism. They agree on the dogmatic issues (i.e. Christ is the risen messiah etc) and neither believe the other’s members are going to hell. So you are just flat out wrong, again.

Quote:] Never? Never, ever? Oh, you must mean there's not a scripture that denotes a point by point list. No, that can not be your intention. My mistake. Because you said the 7 deadly sins never appear in the Bible. Or maybe you think that because there's not that list preceeded by something to the effect; "These are the 7 deadly sins ..."

Please show me using scripture where it says that these are the only seven sins that will result in physical and or spiritual death? All sin warrants physical and spiritual death.

Quote:

---

Do you remember how many Theists here talk about context? And the alternative definition of a word, as opposed to that which may be said to take a verse proffered in a post out of context? "Deadly" is to be understood as transgressions that are fatal to spiritual progress. (The Seven Deadly Sins)
Now while there are some real Christians who will claim these sins don't truly threaten them because of Jesus sacrifice, that no sin is truly "deadly" to the Christian, i.e. any transgression that can be fatal to spiritual progress, the "word" says differently. Because after all, what is "sin"?

Romans 3:9-12 (KJV)

What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Unless of course a Christian , a real one, chooses not to accept that and then there's a solution to the problem. A verse that affords something they can live with, in denial at will, as a "Biblical Christian".
1 John 3:9
King James Version (KJV)
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Oh, drats! There's that pesky errancy issue again.

Matthew 12:31-32
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

---

What are you even talking about? Very basic exegesis reveals that those verses are in complete harmony. Paul is clearly referring to the unregenerate man in Romans 3, which of course none of them do anything good, not one. The verse in John is referring to Christians, and of course all of their sins are forgiven. In the verse in Matthew, Jesus is talking to a group of Jewish leadership who blamed one of his miracles on the devil, thus committing Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, why is it unforgivable? We do not know, could easily just be because it was unbelievers who committed it. Either way, it’s not a contradiction at all, show me a verse where a believer commits blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and is forgiven and maybe you’d have something. As to how you were trying to prove that the Catholic concept of the seven deadly sins is somehow derived directly from scripture is still a mystery.

Quote: No you're not. As to the first part of your question, I can understand how you would need someone to do the legwork so as to provide your ignorance an answer even to that. However, that you would even ask how racism, bigotry, homophobia, etc... would be morally wrong allows one to infer you do not consider them to be so... Oh hell, you are a Biblical Chrisitan!

That’s it? That’s your answer? I never said I don’t have a reason for believing they are wrong, but it is because of my worldview that I do believe they are wrong. I wanted to hear how you can state they are wrong given your worldview, and you dodged the question. So is it safe to conclude you have no basis for believing they are wrong? You just borrow your morality from the Christian? I am a bit disappointed you gave me the exact answer I was expecting.

(27th July 2011 14:52)Rhythm Wrote:  You know whenever we get into a discussion of sectarianism, I've always thought it would be much more productive if two christians on these boards started a thread outlining the difference between their denominations, and why they felt those differences are important enough to deserve denomination in the first place. A christian can always assume some "body of christendom" in the presence of an atheist, it's a harder sell when there's a christian on the line with an opposing viewpoint.

I have plenty of friends who belong to different denominations, we still consider one another brothers in Christ. I used to coach at an inter-denominational school, kind of funny how that is even possible considering you guys all seem to believe denominations hate one another. Nothing brings us together more than outspoken atheists.

[Rhythm]

Yes, yes, nothing brings ideological enemies closer than a greater enemy. It is what it is Waldorf, people have been persecuting each other over their religious disagreements (even within their own parent faiths) for about as long as we've cared to record it. That you aren't out there stabbing catholics is a great testament to you, personally, not your faith, which has shown that it can, has, and will do exactly those sorts of things. Differing on "small" issues like the reasons for damnation, or descriptions of hell, are only small in the light of the difference that you all commonly have with atheists.."no god". I can see why you feel that these differences are not important when dealing with atheism, but it's dishonest to try and pass the whole thing off as a non-issue, I personally believe you know enough about the differences, history, and current events that you're being willfully dishonest for the sake of argument.

And with that, ignored.

[Statler Waldorf]

(29th July 2011 20:56)Rhythm Wrote:  Yes, yes, nothing brings ideological enemies closer than a greater enemy. It is what it is Waldorf, people have been persecuting each other over their religious disagreements (even within their own parent faiths) for about as long as we've cared to record it. That you aren't out there stabbing catholics is a great testament to you, personally, not your faith, which has shown that it can, has, and will do exactly those sorts of things. Differing on "small" issues like the reasons for damnation, or descriptions of hell, are only small in the light of the difference that you all commonly have with atheists.."no god". I can see why you feel that these differences are not important when dealing with atheism, but it's dishonest to try and pass the whole thing off as a non-issue, I personally believe you know enough about the differences, history, and current events that you're being willfully dishonest for the sake of argument.

And with that, ignored.

Classy, take a shot and then run. If Christians all hate one another so much, how are inter-denominational schools possible? Please answer that. I never saw anyone tortured or persecuted while I was coaching there. You point to wrongs people of faith have done in the past but ignore the atrocities committed by atheists in the 20th century? We had no concept of what an atrocity really was until you guys came on the scene and showed the world. People doing evil just points out the need for a Messiah, so you are really only strengthening my position when you do such things. I won't place you on ignore though, you don't scare me any mate. :-)