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Pat gets mad
#21
RE: Pat gets mad
Quote:but I do dislike intensely the (thankfully) short lived proclivities of any new ethnic group to segregate themselves off and try to make ethnic enclaves where they can reimplement the very place they came from.


However, Moros, the history of immigration in America is filled with such examples and virtually every group which arrives has created one of those enclaves. Manhattan has its Chinatown, and Little Italy, and Spanish Harlem. The Germans clustered in Brooklyn.

Today there are Greeks in Astoria, Queens; Russians in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn; Chinese in Flushing, Queens; Poles in Greenpoint, Brooklyn....you get the picture. The difference is that these enclaves do not insist that the rest of NY conform to their beliefs and practices which is what it sounds as if muslims are trying to pull in Europe.
Immigration in the US has generally been insular for the first generation but the children think of themselves as Americans and their parents were more than happy to push them to assimilate. It is the assimilation piece that seems to be missing in Europe. I have some suspicions about why that is but I think it stems from the fact that islam is a religion and not an ethnicity.
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#22
RE: Pat gets mad
It doesn't help that sometimes certain muslim immigrants kill their children for being 'too American'...
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#23
RE: Pat gets mad
Yes, that murder part really throws the bleach on the slogan; religion of peace.

Noor Faleh Almaleki, the family Patriarch, chose to bring his family to live in the west and when his daughter wanted to taste the freedom it afforded, he runs her down in a Jeep Grand Cherokee to get his family honor back. It took Noor Faleh Almaleki two weeks to die. While no doubt prayers to Allah rang to the heavens begging she fight to stay alive and ...then what? In a family like that!

If a man has to destroy his daughter to regain his honor, because he imagines he loses it when she chooses to be a free thinking individual, he never had any in the first place.



February 22, 2011 - Noor Faleh Almaleki found guilty of 2nd degree murder. (I guess 1st was optimistic!)
"In life you can never be too kind or too fair; everyone you meet is carrying a heavy load. When you go through your day expressing kindness and courtesy to all you meet, you leave behind a feeling of warmth and good cheer, and you help alleviate the burdens everyone is struggling with."
Brian Tracy
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#24
RE: Pat gets mad
(July 28, 2011 at 6:37 am)Napoleon Wrote: Okay, I have one major gripe with what you said. You make an assumption that Pat Condell is making sweeping generalisations about muslims. Islam? Arguable. But muslims? I've never seen Pat dissing ordinary muslims, he's always made his arguments towards ISLAM as a religion. If you can find me a specific incident of Pat generalising muslims then be my guest and post it here. Otherwise I've always been under the impression that Pat has had beef with Islam, not necessarily the everyday person who might believe it. Sure he probably thinks they're brainwashed nitwits, but then again, I do too. So bite me Big Grin

Right, he did say that he doesn't hate all Muslims (in a video titled "The Enemy Within"), but he does make generalizations about Islam from other videos that I've seen which seems to prove that he has no tolerance of the diversity of beliefs and the unity of the world in spite of the differences we represent. He desires nothing but an absolute annihilation of all that he deems different to his own opinions on religion. Pat certainly has every right to say whatever that he says, and he's quite brave about it, but I think that his impression and his emotional tone does a poor job in delivering the message even if he is right on certain things. But, if it makes him feel good to make such videos on his thoughts about religion, gives him a sense of pride and achievement in his heart, then good for him.

(July 28, 2011 at 7:01 am)Napoleon Wrote: I think for most people, a moderate muslim is a muslim who keeps quiet about wanting to kill you Big Grin

Are you one of them amongst the "most people"? I hope not, and I know that you cannot read my intentions to correctly determine whether or not I want to kill you. Tongue
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#25
RE: Pat gets mad
(July 29, 2011 at 6:10 am)Rayaan Wrote: Right, he did say that he doesn't hate all Muslims (in a video titled "The Enemy Within"), but he does make generalizations about Islam from other videos that I've seen which seems to prove that he has no tolerance of the diversity of beliefs and the unity of the world in spite of the differences we represent.

So yet again we have someone saying "oh pat makes generalisations about islam!" without actually telling us all what they are. If you're going to make out like he does, then prove it. I would genuinely like to see.
By all means Rayaan, post a video where he's made a generalisation, and tell us all with your insider knowledge of Islam why he's making a generalisation. Shouldn't be too hard should it?

Quote:He desires nothing but an absolute annihilation of all that he deems different to his own opinions on religion.

Ummm BULLSHIT. Pat has, and always will, defend freedom of thought and freedom of speech. The fact that Pat opposes Islam is because Islam goes against those very values.

Quote:Pat certainly has every right to say whatever that he says, and he's quite brave about it, but I think that his impression and his emotional tone does a poor job in delivering the message even if he is right on certain things. But, if it makes him feel good to make such videos on his thoughts about religion, gives him a sense of pride and achievement in his heart, then good for him.

I actually think Pat does a fucking awesome job of conveying a message. I don't normally get interested in people ranting down a camera, but Pat actually does it with some wit and style.
That last sentence was sarcasm? Right?

Quote:
(July 28, 2011 at 7:01 am)Napoleon Wrote: I think for most people, a moderate muslim is a muslim who keeps quiet about wanting to kill you Big Grin

Are you one of them amongst the "most people"? I hope not, and I know that you cannot read my intentions to correctly determine whether or not I want to kill you. Tongue

Okay. Let me rephrase it for you:
A moderate muslim is a muslim who doesn't have the balls to kill you.
Yes I am most certainly one of those people Wink
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#26
RE: Pat gets mad
Pat Condell opposed the building of a mosque and community centre in New York city. If that doesn't speak miles about how he makes generalisations about all muslims, I don't know what does. He also supports banning certain items of clothing; an act which is fueled not by rationality but by pure hatred of Islam.

There are no rational reasons (to my knowledge) to oppose the building of certain buildings in New York, just as there are no rational reasons (to my knowledge) why we should start banning items of clothing. I have yet to see any that hold up to even the slightest bit of scrutiny. No, all of them are deeply irrational and stem from a hatred of one particular religion, and are attempts at stopping followers of those religions from doing otherwise harmless acts, all because some other followers of their religion decided to go around killing people.

So I challenge anyone who supports Pat Condell:

Give me a rational argument why we should oppose the building of the mosque and community centre in New York, or give me a rational argument why we should ban items of clothing. Pick one (or both), and we'll have a discussion.

I used to be a follower of Pat Condell; I subscribed to his videos and loved it when he went on tirades about Islam. Then I realised that hardly any muslims are like the muslims he is ranting about; most of them are decent honest people who are only trying to follow a belief system. Banning them from wearing items of clothing under the guise of "women's rights" is backwards, because it goes against women's rights to choose to wear those items of clothing. Banning the building of a mosque and community centre under the guise of "September 11th" is backwards, since it assumes that September 11th was supported by all muslims, not just those of a radical sect and known terrorist group (which it was).
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#27
RE: Pat gets mad
(July 29, 2011 at 9:05 am)Tiberius Wrote: Give me a rational argument why we should oppose the building of the mosque and community centre in New York....

Well, if there was no more religion and there was a choice between that and a school, I guess one could make a rational argument... Too bad reality isn't that way Tongue

As to Pat Condell, I had him subbed, then unsubbed. Booring shit.
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#28
RE: Pat gets mad
(July 29, 2011 at 9:05 am)Tiberius Wrote: Give me a rational argument why we should oppose the building of the mosque and community centre in New York, or give me a rational argument why we should ban items of clothing. Pick one (or both), and we'll have a discussion.

While I personally don't agree with banning a mosque/community centre near ground zero, I fully understand why people wouldn't want one there. Let's face facts. The people who killed thousands were self proclaimed muslims. Now I wouldn't say it was at all irrational, to say no to building a mosque at the site of all of those deaths which were supposedly 'in the name of Islam'.
I think it is absolutely insensitive.

As for the clothing. Maybe YOU can explain to ME why when paying for petrol at a petrol garage, a biker must remove his helmet. However a muslim in a headscarf can hide their identity? How about when in shopping centres people aren't allowed to wear hoodies (because it hides their identities), however muslims can walk about like ninjas.
Again, I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to find balance in the law. Why have rules for some and not for others.
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#29
RE: Pat gets mad
(July 29, 2011 at 12:18 pm)Napoleon Wrote: While I personally don't agree with banning a mosque/community centre near ground zero, I fully understand why people wouldn't want one there. Let's face facts. The people who killed thousands were self proclaimed muslims. Now I wouldn't say it was at all irrational, to say no to building a mosque at the site of all of those deaths which were supposedly 'in the name of Islam'.
I think it is absolutely insensitive.
Firstly, the idea that the mosque is "at the site of all those deaths" is absurd, and reveal how much you actually know about the community centre. The people who destroyed the towers we muslims, but were of a completely different sect of Islam than anyone building the mosque. It's why we don't blame all Christians when abortion clinics are bombed, or when they build icons of stupidity like creation museums. We don't stop them from building churches, when so much destruction has come out of their religion, but for some reason we do it when it's Islam. The only reason is pure hatred, and that is exactly why the politicians of New York are letting the mosque be built; because at the end of the day, people are associating the mosque with the attack in a way which is unfair on those building the mosque.

Quote:As for the clothing. Maybe YOU can explain to ME why when paying for petrol at a petrol garage, a biker must remove his helmet. However a muslim in a headscarf can hide their identity? How about when in shopping centres people aren't allowed to wear hoodies (because it hides their identities), however muslims can walk about like ninjas.
Again, I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to find balance in the law. Why have rules for some and not for others.
I can't explain it, but I realise it is unfair. People should be able to wear whatever clothing they like, regardless of their religion.
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#30
RE: Pat gets mad
(July 28, 2011 at 5:35 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote: It doesn't help that sometimes certain muslim immigrants kill their children for being 'too American'...

Agreed. It's rare that Hispanics kill their kids for trying to be "American."
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