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Cross at world trade center memorial?
#11
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
(July 31, 2011 at 10:41 pm)MilesTailsPrower Wrote: Thing I don't get about the atheists over in New York constantly complain about a cross. I really don't give a shit about it.

What on earth does either of those things have to with anything? Thinking
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#12
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
(July 31, 2011 at 8:34 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Quite honestly, I'd prefer that the cross be moved to St. Paul's Chapel that's right near the WTC site and is heavily connected to the aftermath of the attacks. It's close to the site and it's in a place where it would be fitting.

And if I'm being quite honest: save the money on the pointless monument. You want a nice cheap little marker? Use a small cinder block.

And even then: what the fuck is the point of a monument to an attack? I can understand someone maybe respecting a great man of science or the leader who pulled their nation through the war... but to respect a terrorist attack by firstly recognizing it and then having the fucking idiocy to dramatize it... only to put a monument there to mark what happened for as long as possible?

Sounds to me like the terrorists won.

What fits in that place is not a monument: it is a tall building.
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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#13
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
Doesn't bug me any. I'd have to check, but don't crosses pre-date christianity anyway??

I kinda view a cross (as long as there's no jesus hanging on it) as simply a marker of someone who has passed. A memorial. Not in the least offensive to me.

Min, don't crosses pre-date christianity? or am I incorrect on that?
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#14
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
In my opinion the AA is being a bit anal about this.
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
Pastafarian
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#15
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
(August 1, 2011 at 2:24 am)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote:
(July 31, 2011 at 8:34 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Quite honestly, I'd prefer that the cross be moved to St. Paul's Chapel that's right near the WTC site and is heavily connected to the aftermath of the attacks. It's close to the site and it's in a place where it would be fitting.

And if I'm being quite honest: save the money on the pointless monument. You want a nice cheap little marker? Use a small cinder block.

And even then: what the fuck is the point of a monument to an attack? I can understand someone maybe respecting a great man of science or the leader who pulled their nation through the war... but to respect a terrorist attack by firstly recognizing it and then having the fucking idiocy to dramatize it... only to put a monument there to mark what happened for as long as possible?

Sounds to me like the terrorists won.

What fits in that place is not a monument: it is a tall building.
emphasis added is mine

Fuck, I'm at a loss for words, Sae has put together a post that is coherent start to finish, and makes a valid point. Confusedhock:

don't go turning this into a habit......
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#16
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
Going along the grounds of that logic, monuments and cemeteries are illogical too. Because it looks like death won, that car accident with no survivors won, cancer won, Alzheimer's won, etc...
The Vietnam memorial. One gigantic outstretched tombstone. Looks like the north Vietnamese won.

Arlington cemetery, where dead soldiers rest beneath little white crosses and now pentagrams, if they were Wiccan. Lives lost across the generations. Looks like every enemy in the history of war that put them there, won.

Fireman's memorials. Looks like the flames won.

Grow up.
"In life you can never be too kind or too fair; everyone you meet is carrying a heavy load. When you go through your day expressing kindness and courtesy to all you meet, you leave behind a feeling of warmth and good cheer, and you help alleviate the burdens everyone is struggling with."
Brian Tracy
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#17
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
I'm not criticizing cemeteries as memorials (would it amuse you if the earliest known types of ritual display of remains, the type of display that would become the cemetery, are thought to be much more like property markers?). In this case, just in this case, It would seem to me that we might want to throw a nice big building up as a giant "f u".
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#18
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
(August 1, 2011 at 2:17 pm)Judas BentHer Wrote: Going along the grounds of that logic, monuments and cemeteries are illogical too.

Using 'logical' to say something that is not tautological (ie: a cemetery is a cemetery) or to make valid a statement so it is become tautological (all dogs are mountains and all mountains are blue, therefore all dogs are blue) is a complete misuse of logic.

Quote:Because it looks like death won, that car accident with no survivors won, cancer won, Alzheimer's won, etc...

It does not matter if in the end you are defeated by gravity: for gravity cannot brag about beating you.

Quote:The Vietnam memorial. One gigantic outstretched tombstone. Looks like the north Vietnamese won.

They did.

Quote:Arlington cemetery, where dead soldiers rest beneath little white crosses and now pentagrams, if they were Wiccan. Lives lost across the generations. Looks like every enemy in the history of war that put them there, won.

Fascinatingly enough: if someone kills you and you are not some sort of amazing philosopher king who used your death to further your goals: they won.

Quote:Fireman's memorials. Looks like the flames won.

Grow up.

After you, O' small being from Earth Heart

I happen to stand at a towering 62 of your meters, which is quite large for my people. Only those of my race who have lived to see quadruple digits in their age are larger than I. If I grow up much further I will have broken even the records of my people.
CInjin Wrote:Doesn't bug me any. I'd have to check, but don't crosses pre-date christianity anyway??

The roman torture device in question existed long before Jesus was supposedly crucified upon it.
(August 1, 2011 at 2:21 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I'm not criticizing cemeteries as memorials (would it amuse you if the earliest known types of ritual display of remains, the type of display that would become the cemetery, are thought to be much more like property markers?). In this case, just in this case, It would seem to me that we might want to throw a nice big building up as a giant "f u".

And sturdier this time, if you'll please Heart
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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#19
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
The Romans picked up the practice from the Carthaginians...who brought it with them from their Phoenician homeland.
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#20
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
(August 1, 2011 at 12:52 am)padraic Wrote:
(July 31, 2011 at 10:41 pm)MilesTailsPrower Wrote: Thing I don't get about the atheists over in New York constantly complain about a cross. I really don't give a shit about it.

What on earth does either of those things have to with anything? Thinking

Remember the big bitch fest atheists had over a street sign close to the twin towers. I don't see the big problem :d

And yes shit and not caring for something are exactly the same Smile
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Religion is like a Penis, you shouldn't whip it out in public and you shouldn't shove it down your child's throat.
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