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Cross at world trade center memorial?
#21
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
(August 1, 2011 at 2:21 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I'm not criticizing cemeteries as memorials (would it amuse you if the earliest known types of ritual display of remains, the type of display that would become the cemetery, are thought to be much more like property markers?). In this case, just in this case, It would seem to me that we might want to throw a nice big building up as a giant "f u".


I don't have an issue with the Ground Zero memorial going up. I think it's construction indicates a giant FU from the inception of the plans that set the project into motion.

What would allow the terrorists to "win", is if that spot that had comprised 16 acres at 130 Liberty Street in Manhattan, was instead allowed to be filled in so that nothing remained but horrific memories and new sod. As if thousands of people sent screaming to their deaths that tragic September day, don't matter anymore.

That, is what the terrorists want. As zealots of any kind prove time and again. Lives are expendable when the agenda means everything.
"In life you can never be too kind or too fair; everyone you meet is carrying a heavy load. When you go through your day expressing kindness and courtesy to all you meet, you leave behind a feeling of warmth and good cheer, and you help alleviate the burdens everyone is struggling with."
Brian Tracy
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#22
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
(July 31, 2011 at 2:38 pm)treadmill Wrote: I think this is wrong... Check out the poll and vote!

http://live.foxnews.com/

Poll is halfway down the page on the right side.

A memorial without a cross would be more than sufficient, considering that not all the victims of that attack were Christians.
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#23
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
Quote:not all the victims of that attack were Christians.

It was NY...they probably weren't even a majority.
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#24
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
(August 1, 2011 at 7:02 pm)Judas BentHer Wrote: I don't have an issue with the Ground Zero memorial going up. I think it's construction indicates a giant FU from the inception of the plans that set the project into motion.

I don't have an issue with them wasting their money and time: fools are easier to steal from. Its construction indicates only that those buildings were not knocked down in vain, ever the monument to the success of the attack.

Quote:What would allow the terrorists to "win", is if that spot that had comprised 16 acres at 130 Liberty Street in Manhattan, was instead allowed to be filled in so that nothing remained but horrific memories and new sod. As if thousands of people sent screaming to their deaths that tragic September day, don't matter anymore.

They really don't. What matters is not the toll (had it been a few thousand more or less: the result would be unchanged). It is that the infrastructure was damaged. People are a dime a dozen right now... so easy to come by that a good 10% of the adult human population you look at in america are completely free of any jobs at the moment. Put them to use and the world carries on with a minimal and short change in its beat.

But take out the buildings... and they take years, money, and work to build back up. Obviously, this affects the beat considerably more. 5000 odd people are very easily and quickly replaceable (you don't notice the effect of more people than that dying in america each day, do you?). 6000 some americans die per day, maybe 40% of them suddenly. And this has exactly zero effect on the function of our society. Hell... do you see monuments going up for the 6000 people that died today? No... you get to see their name in a little book or their tombstone (whether a grave or not) if someone bothered to make one. These deaths deserve no different.

Also... I find it humorous that you believe the attack was horrific. I'm far too amused in its success for any sense of horror to develop.

Quote:That, is what the terrorists want. As zealots of any kind prove time and again. Lives are expendable when the agenda means everything.

The dead do not matter unless their name still carries weight, whether this be in will or deed. Life is so expendable that we have butcheries and multiple entire industries devoted to ending lives.

The agenda does mean everything. Always, to everyone. Valuing the names of the dead is its own agenda, and one which I do not share.
Oh, and one more thing. The five primary motivations of terrorists, so that you don't make such a moronic statement as:

Judas BentHer Wrote:What would allow the terrorists to "win", is if <those lives> don't matter anymore.

That, is what the terrorists want

1: To be remembered. This is a primary reason for one to publicly slaughter people. Often this terrorist is characterized by frustration, and sometimes they kill themselves afterwards.

2: Religion. Given we talk about it almost daily: we need not go over it here.

3: To leave a message. Examples: "Black people are the scum of the earth.", "The Vatican is the home of demons.", "Never brutalize a child to the point where all they wish for is your death and the deaths of all you surround yourself with.".

4: Revenge. Easily enough understood emotion I do think.

5: Freedom. The Americans during their revolution of independence against Britain were terrorists.

Not necessarily in that order and totally interchangeable with a few other things a terrorist wants (ie: mercenary 'terrorist' and simple bloodlust).

And almost never to tell you that lives don't matter. If this was the case: why bother killing them? Heart
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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#25
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
The point the AA is making is if there is going to be a steel girder cross installed at the memorial, symbolizing the Christian faith as if it is indeed a place of fallen Christians, which is of course wrong, then all religious symbols should be included in a montage to all those faiths, and even the "A" atheists, and of course agnostics and pagans, who can be presumed to have been among the dead.

Not just the presumptive symbolism that encompasses the sole icon of the one predominant faith that is as intolerant of other faiths when it's own zealot crews start their push, as is the Muslim faith and it's zealots.

I think the whole thing makes AA look bad. Radical atheism is just as ignorant as any Theist cult. All this blustering about a street sign with "Heaven" in the name, dedicated in remembrance of the fallen firemen of 9-11. This cross that is simply the result of steel girder's being cut to fit such an outline, when they're too well formed to have simply fallen in the rubble as is, isn't a "miracle". It's intentional as a welded cross shape, and it's a lie that it was found looking like that in the aftermath of the tragedy, surviving in the rubble as a symbol of Christ's glory.
If Christ had any glory he'd have caused the psychotic Muslims hijacking those planes to die in their sleep on September 10th, 2001.

No lawsuit is going to stop people from clinging to their faith. Heaven, god, Jesus, salvation, isn't going to depart from the nomenclature simply because a select bunch of atheist reactionaries think they can make an attempt to extricate it from common usage if they harass the public that utters such words, or places them on signs, or on bus ad's, or billboards, etc...

If there's going to be a memorial at Ground Zero and it's in keeping with having religious implications simply by being erected in remembrance of every victim who may be presumed to have either held faith in the supernatural or not, then it should be a fair array of iconography as it relates to those people. Christianity is a presumptuous elitist cult mythology as it is. It has no right on a site dedicated to remembering all people who perished on 9-11, to think all families of those departed loved one's would approve the shadow of one religion representing their lost family or friend.
"In life you can never be too kind or too fair; everyone you meet is carrying a heavy load. When you go through your day expressing kindness and courtesy to all you meet, you leave behind a feeling of warmth and good cheer, and you help alleviate the burdens everyone is struggling with."
Brian Tracy
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#26
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
Confession: As long as they don't have that idiot god-boy attached to them - I like crosses.

Especially celtic crosses. Not real sure why. Maybe just the solemnity of them. I have always found a strange beauty in sadness.


meh
[Image: Evolution.png]

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#27
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3YiPC91QUk

The first one fell to terrorist bombings.

So I built another one.

That one fell to latino%2

Edit: This post fell to latino terrorist bombings.
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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#28
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
(August 1, 2011 at 10:20 pm)Cinjin Wrote: Confession: As long as they don't have that idiot god-boy attached to them - I like crosses.

Especially celtic crosses...
I know what you mean. I feel the same way. There's an art gallery downtown and they often display sculpture and even cross jewelery that I find beautiful. And I too like the Celtic cross and, like you, don't know why.
"In life you can never be too kind or too fair; everyone you meet is carrying a heavy load. When you go through your day expressing kindness and courtesy to all you meet, you leave behind a feeling of warmth and good cheer, and you help alleviate the burdens everyone is struggling with."
Brian Tracy
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#29
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
(August 1, 2011 at 10:20 pm)Cinjin Wrote: Confession: As long as they don't have that idiot god-boy attached to them - I like crosses.

Especially celtic crosses. Not real sure why. Maybe just the solemnity of them. I have always found a strange beauty in sadness.


meh

If you want sensuality and sensual love, you go to the Latin countries, and ancient middle-east. If you want simply joy, you go to the French. If you want irony, see the Jews. But if you want love - the kind that aches like hunger - or grief turned sublime, you have to go to the Celts.

[Image: Untitled2_zpswaosccbr.png]
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#30
RE: Cross at world trade center memorial?
Gingers may not have souls, but they do know how to draw squiggly lines. Celtic crosses, and celtic art in general is probably pleasing to you because you have a tendancy as a human being to seek pattern. You are rewarded for seeking pattern in those seemingly elaborate designs. They are in reality repetitions of a very simple set of figures. This made it easy for early artisans to add a lot of "detail" to pieces with the limited tools and techniques know to them. Two birds, one stone.

I'm doing some whittling on a new stock for my rifle primarily using knots, coils, and very simple and stylized figures of deer. (it's magic, and it will totally work)

I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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