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RE: Ask the Christian
October 3, 2011 at 9:18 am
(This post was last modified: October 3, 2011 at 9:18 am by KichigaiNeko.)
(October 3, 2011 at 8:58 am)lucent Wrote: I can just as easily say that the existence of any mind is evidence for God, just as you can easily say that with no proof.
Why? Since it is all in your own mind (your words) so how can you say that is evidence?
ergo..that there is no evidence for your godboy.
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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RE: Ask the Christian
October 3, 2011 at 9:31 am
"I can just as easily say that the existence of any mind is evidence for God, just as you can easily say that with no proof."
If you want to go polytheistic, this tack might be fun for you to take.
Trying to update my sig ...
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RE: Ask the Christian
October 3, 2011 at 12:32 pm
Evidence for what Lucent? Faith and fairy tales require none. Not sure what you're looking for here.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Ask the Christian
October 3, 2011 at 12:33 pm
What you on about? I have been gathering my evidence for the existence of Ringwraiths for years!
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RE: Ask the Christian
October 3, 2011 at 1:29 pm
(October 3, 2011 at 5:44 am)lucent Wrote: Okay, do you have any evidence to prove your claim that it isn't rational to believe something without sufficient evidence?
It's a fucking tautology. Look up the relevant meanings of "rational", which should lead you to "reason", and finally "fact".
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RE: Ask the Christian
October 3, 2011 at 1:59 pm
Oh fuck we're not doing the old 'the mind is evidence for the supernatural' thing again.
Some people believe without any real reason to that the something called the mind exists apart from the brain.
What you percive as the mind is just the brain what the brain does, in short the 'mind' is almost certainly brain processes.
The effects of the brain mind link can be readily shown because changes to he brain change the 'mind' things like drugs, injury, discease or just plain tiredness can cause people to act in different ways, this shows that the physical link between what we think of as ourselves and the brain are real.
If you are positing that there is some non-physical element involved, then you have a mountain to climb trying to prove it.
Others have tried and all have failed.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
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RE: Ask the Christian
October 3, 2011 at 5:58 pm
(This post was last modified: October 3, 2011 at 6:09 pm by lucent.)
(October 3, 2011 at 1:29 pm)I_Blaspheme Wrote: (October 3, 2011 at 5:44 am)lucent Wrote: Okay, do you have any evidence to prove your claim that it isn't rational to believe something without sufficient evidence?
It's a fucking tautology. Look up the relevant meanings of "rational", which should lead you to "reason", and finally "fact".
It isn't a tautology. Do you what tautology means? If you want to say that it is always irrational to believe in someting without sufficient evidence, then it must be true for all circumstances. I have demonstrated it isn't true for all circumstances, therefore the claim is self-refuting and itself irrational.
(October 3, 2011 at 1:59 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Oh fuck we're not doing the old 'the mind is evidence for the supernatural' thing again.
Some people believe without any real reason to that the something called the mind exists apart from the brain.
What you percive as the mind is just the brain what the brain does, in short the 'mind' is almost certainly brain processes.
The effects of the brain mind link can be readily shown because changes to he brain change the 'mind' things like drugs, injury, discease or just plain tiredness can cause people to act in different ways, this shows that the physical link between what we think of as ourselves and the brain are real.
If you are positing that there is some non-physical element involved, then you have a mountain to climb trying to prove it.
Others have tried and all have failed.
That wasn't my claim, and this has nothing to do with the argument. I am demonstrating that there are things we believe without sufficient evidence, such as:
There is a world external to my mind
There are minds other than my own
Another evidence would be the reliability of my memory. There is no way for me to prove that the Universe wasn't created 5 minutes ago and all of my memories are false. I just choose to believe that my memories are reliable.
Here is some reading material for you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_other_minds
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_proble...sciousness
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RE: Ask the Christian
October 3, 2011 at 11:45 pm
(October 3, 2011 at 5:58 pm)lucent Wrote: It isn't a tautology. Do you what tautology means? If you want to say that it is always irrational to believe in someting without sufficient evidence, then it must be true for all circumstances. I have demonstrated it isn't true for all circumstances, therefore the claim is self-refuting and itself irrational.
Rationality, as it pertains to belief, is by definition is required to be based in fact (i.e. evidentiary).
Words mean things. Very specific things, in fact - not what we wish them to be.
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RE: Ask the Christian
October 4, 2011 at 1:04 am
(This post was last modified: October 4, 2011 at 1:07 am by lucent.)
(October 3, 2011 at 11:45 pm)I_Blaspheme Wrote: (October 3, 2011 at 5:58 pm)lucent Wrote: It isn't a tautology. Do you what tautology means? If you want to say that it is always irrational to believe in someting without sufficient evidence, then it must be true for all circumstances. I have demonstrated it isn't true for all circumstances, therefore the claim is self-refuting and itself irrational.
Rationality, as it pertains to belief, is by definition is required to be based in fact (i.e. evidentiary).
Words mean things. Very specific things, in fact - not what we wish them to be.
I agree, words have specific meanings. So let's find out what rationality actually means:
Rationality
1. the state or quality of being rational.
2. the possession of reason.
3. agreeableness to reason; reasonableness.
4. the exercise of reason.
5. a reasonable view, practice, etc.
It looks like rationality relates to belief through the exercise of reason. What does it mean to reason?
Reason (verb)
verb (used with object)
11. to think through logically, as a problem (often followed by out ).
12. to conclude or infer.
13. to convince, persuade, etc., by reasoning.
14. to support with reasons.
I don't seem to see anything about empirical evidence there. I do see something about logic and inference though.
I'll give you an example of a reasonable belief.
Tomorrow, I believe the sun will rise. Because of the long history of the sun rising, coupled with what all that we understand about the sun, my belief here is reasonable. Is there any evidence that it is true? Since science cannot predict the future, but only hopes the Universe will act in the same way that it has in the past, there is no actual empirical evidence to prove that this will happen. Yet it is rational because it is reasonably concluded by a logical inference from the available information. I don't need sufficient proof to be justified in this belief.
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RE: Ask the Christian
October 4, 2011 at 1:26 am
Quote:Not her life, her virginity. Why do you think it states after he fulfilled his vow "And she had never been intimate with a man". Maybe bec
ause it was verifying her lifelong chastity? And do you honestly think women were going to be celebrating an outlaw human sacrifice for 4 days every year? That would be an awesome party, don't you think? Do you think they celebrated with a BBQ? There is no way this would have been acceptable..the guy would have been thrown out of the community or killed himself. Give it a res
So you conveniently ignore the HE FULFILLED HIS VOW part, huh?
Listen, you can believe whatever the fuck you want but when the words on the page say one thing and you read it as another then you are simply being dense. Xtians frequently twist their balls in a knot in order to make excuses for your bible so you aren't doing anything different than most of them but I'm on to you, boy.
It's a load of shit.
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