Back to Theism

[Edward]

I can't do it. I've tried. I've tried to be an atheist, but it doesn't work. I'm not a Christian, and I'm not an atheist. I believe in God as our Father (even if that is a dualistic metaphor I have to cling to in order to understand God) and I believe that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life.

I am not a Christian, however, because Christians aren't what they say they are. They are, in fact, Judeo-Christians. That means, the religion they practice is a combination of Judaism and the teachings of Jesus Christ.

In the New Testament, you have the Gospels, and then you have the Acts and the various letters and the book of Hebrews. The Gospels are what I'm about. The rest of it is just a bunch of people who couldn't live according to teachings of Jesus Christ and needed a greater sense of order (Jesus taken alone is very anarchistic, extremely judgmental, totally black-and-white, anti-world, anti-wealth, faith over reason, etc., not conducive at all to a long life on ol' planet Earth.).

So, I am a Veridican. Veridical (true) -an (a follower of) = Veridican (a follower of the truth).

I tend to think religion is the leading cause of insanity. But what the hell.

Now, I will have to open up my can of whoop-ass theism in here. You can ban me, of course. But what fun would that be?

[Kyuuketsuki]

IMO (and it is just opinion) it's no good trying to be an atheist ... it's just a label, it's what you are when other things force you to the realisation that there are no gods. I'm an atheist because the available evidence, or absence of, indicates there is no god (strongly IMO), if the available evidence indicated there was a god I'd become a theist.

Theists tell us we should embrace religion but I can almost guarantee that no atheist here could rationally do it ... it's not a concious choice and that, unfortunately, is how you see to be treating it. It's also why the oft claimed "No Atheists In Foxholes" is such patent bunk.

Kyu

[Tiberius]

(26th March 2009 21:27)Edward Wrote:  I believe that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life.

Yeah...that's kinda the definition of a Christian dude.

Ah well, you thought you were an atheist, you were wrong. Easy come, easy go.

[Demonaura]

Why would be ban you? I honestly think no different of you now than I did half an hour ago. Tbh it sounds to me like your having issues with labels but, as long as you make an effort to be true to yourself and your beleifs then I'm happy for you in that reguard.

And Kyu is right, don't 'try to be' anything, especially not an atheist. You beleive what you beleive and only experiences can really change it.

[WWLD]

(26th March 2009 21:27)Edward Wrote:  I tend to think religion is the leading cause of insanity. But what the hell.

yay you realize this

The chances of you getting banned are slim to none. everyone is welcome and I would love you know your opinons

[Tiberius]

As is clear from the only 4 people we have banned, we only force you off the site if you are a spammer or you are being intentionally disruptive.

[padraic]

@Edward

Honesty and the spirit of inquiry,even criticism,expressed civilly is welcome on every atheist forum I've visited,and I've visited many. It's rare for anyone to be banned except for spamming,sock puppetry or being really offensive and even that varies between forums.

From what I've seen it's the Christian and Muslim forums which are unable to accept honest questions or criticism of their beliefs. I'll concede that death threats do seem rarer on Christian forums.

If you truly have an open mind,your beliefs may change. Mine did,over about 20 years from rabid Catholic,to occultist to agnostic to atheist. My atheism is not a matter of choice,it's where my questions led me once I lost my fear of disbelief.

I hope you hang around.

[Edward]

(26th March 2009 21:38)Kyuuketsuki Wrote:  IMO (and it is just opinion) it's no good trying to be an atheist ... it's just a label, it's what you are when other things force you to the realisation that there are no gods. I'm an atheist because the available evidence, or absence of, indicates there is no god (strongly IMO), if the available evidence indicated there was a god I'd become a theist.

Do you believe in quarks? Why? When have you ever experienced them? What evidence outside of an appeal to authority do you have for the existence of quarks, or for that matter that the moon is solid, or for that matter that the sun will rise tomorrow.

For 99.99% of the knowledge we have, we have no direct evidence. To deny order in the universe however, now that's about on the level of mentally ill.

(26th March 2009 21:41)Tiberius Wrote:  

(26th March 2009 21:27)Edward Wrote:  I believe that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life.

Yeah...that's kinda the definition of a Christian dude.

As I explained, but you ignored, the term "Christian" is a misnomer. What you think of as Christian is really a Judeo-Christian. I am not that.

Quote:Ah well, you thought you were an atheist, you were wrong. Easy come, easy go.

Easy come, easy go!

(26th March 2009 21:55)Demonaura Wrote:  And Kyu is right, don't 'try to be' anything, especially not an atheist. You beleive what you beleive and only experiences can really change it.

We believe what we choose to believe. It doesn't change the truth at all. Sometimes there is global warming, sometimes there isn't. Sometimes Iraq is our ally, sometimes our enemy. Sometimes we're at war with Eastasia, other times we've never been at war with Eastasia, but have always been at war with Eurasia. Sometimes a hairdo on the news tells us the economy is in the toilet, sometimes we're in a recovery. There's really no way to know for sure. If we believed only what we experienced, we'd all be in the dark ages. The only question that remains is what authority to believe, that is, if you can find two who agree.

(26th March 2009 22:21)WWLD Wrote:  The chances of you getting banned are slim to none. everyone is welcome and I would love you know your opinons

I'm afraid your a bit innocent, my friend.

(26th March 2009 23:35)Tiberius Wrote:  As is clear from the only 4 people we have banned, we only force you off the site if you are a spammer or you are being intentionally disruptive.

Uh huh. Well, it's the being intentionally disruptive part that has such a broad definition, isn't it?

(27th March 2009 00:19)padraic Wrote:  @Edward

If you truly have an open mind,your beliefs may change. Mine did,over about 20 years from rabid Catholic,to occultist to agnostic to atheist. My atheism is not a matter of choice,it's where my questions led me once I lost my fear of disbelief.

I hope you hang around.

The Catholic Church is good for nothing if not for producing atheists.

[Demonaura]

I will still disagree that our beleifs are a matter of choice. I'd love to have an unshakeable faith that I was protected by the divine but, I can't simply choose to think that. I can tell myself it's the truth all day long but, I'll never buy it unless something gives me a reason to do so. Such as seeing something that was a miracle, something unexplainable that appears to disreguard the known laws of the universe.

But without something happening to provide new evidence I cannot choose to beleive anything, I choose my label, I choose my company but, my beleifs are a result of my experiences. Also something I have had little luck explaining via the internet, I put a certain 'weight' on things that others do not; for example I would not kill one child even if it saved one hundred other lives.


As for intentionally disruptive users, I'd say ones that constantly post threads that are just copy pasted from the net saying "atheists have no morals" would count. I agree it's a broad rule but, it needs to be. It also needs to be handled on a case-by-case situation I think. At least so far I don't know of anyone that was banned that didn't earn the ban.

Anyways, hope you do hang around. We may disagree on points but, well that's why it's interesting and fun to talk to you, or anyone that does not share in my beleifs (reguarding theistic claims or otherwise).

[HalcyonicTrust]

(26th March 2009 21:27)Edward Wrote:  I can't do it. I've tried. I've tried to be an atheist, but it doesn't work.

Indeed it doesn't work. You can't TRY to be an atheist if you believe in God any more than I, an atheist (who therefore doesn't believe in god), can TRY to be a THEIST, (be it Christian, Muslim, Jew or whatever) or deist.

If you don't believe in God you are an atheist.
If you believe in God but are TRYING to be an atheist but to no avail - you are still NOT an atheist...
If you are an atheist and you TRY to believe in God but you don't - you are still an atheist....

Because belief is not a matter of policy. I can't choose to believe in God any more than I can CHOOSE to believe that the earth is flat and the moon is spiral shaped and aliens live on Mars that are all rainbow coloured...
If I don't believe I don't believe - and I'm an atheist.
If you believe in God then you are are a theist or deist, etc. 'Trying' to not believe does no good if you DO believe for whatever reason(s) you still think is(are) valid.

If you believe in Jesus and the Christian God but you are TRYING to be an atheist - if you actually believe God exists and think there is good reasons to believe/think faith is relevant reason - then that won't do any good...
And its not good labelling yourself an atheist if you are TRYING to be an atheist and actually aren't one.

It's got nothing to do with trying - trying won't do any good. If you believe in God for whatever reason(s) you are NOT an atheist - despite if there are any efforts to be an atheist (for whatever reason).
If you believe in God you are not an atheist.

if you DON'T believe in God for whatever reason(s) you ARE an atheist - despite if there are any efforts to be a theist (for whatever reason).
If you don't believe in God you are an atheist

EvF