Occupy wallstreet demands

[paintpooper]

Well, in which ways would you like the government to move?
Can you give me an example from around the world from which you will model your future for America?

I don't see any country what has what I would want to model it of off.
For starters make politicians work for the people. Eliminate the Fiat currency.
Change how we work, change how banks work. Why not super low interest rates. Buy a house on a .5 percent loan. Eliminate inflation.
More equality.
The whole world needs to change, we need to all become sustainable and that is the bottom line, you can't have sustainability when everyone is trying to generate the largest GDP, which for some reason is the baseline of how a country is doing, but they ignore the human factor, and we are all humans.
Where the government makes decisions based on rational facts, not "gut" feelings.
Where the government does not kill people. US loves doing that!

[Jackalope]

The demands are ridiculous. Imo

Care to elaborate?

Using the 99% Declaration as a reference, I find some of them to be ridiculously unrealistic. I'm not going to comment on all of their demands, just a few notable examples.

For what it's worth, I'm sympathetic to the movement. I don't agree with all of the talking points.


2) (Abrogation of the Citizen's United case) This would require a Constitutional amendment, and isn't (entirely) within the power of the Federal government to accomplish. In any case, it's not going to happen "immediately" as they demand.

4) (Term Limits) Requires a Constitutional amendment. See #2.

5) (A fair tax code) I'm on board with this one. With that being said, good luck with that.

8) (Debt Reduction) Another one I'm on board with - I'm skeptical that the poorly defined goal can be achieved by 2020. They're going to have to be a bit more specific on this.

14) (End Outsourcing) I find it curious that they speak both of "ending loopholes" and "providing tax incentives". One man's loophole is anothers incentive - in other words, many of the "loopholes" that reduce corporate tax burden are intentionally codified as incentives, or are incentives that are used in unintended ways. The point is - every new incentive is an invitation to game the tax system. In addition - as long as there is economic incentive to reduce labor costs by using foreign labor, there will be those that do so. That being said, I too would like to see this practice disappear, I'm just not convinced it can be done.

17) (Foreclosure Moratorium) I've seen this one extensively discussed elsewhere, and I'm not going to attempt to reproduce all of the arguments here. I do find it to be hopelessly unrealistic.

[theVOID]

They correctly understand that money controls the government, Mehmet. It has always been so everywhere, of course, but in the US in the last 30 it has reached the point of critical mass.

So a bunch of people who 'correctly understand that money controls the government' are pissing off the people with money while hoping that the government is going to do something about it?

RETARDS.

What kind of moron simultaneously believes that (1) The government is controlled by the people with money & (2) The government are the ones who are going to save us from the people with money?

So the people with the money are going to save you from themselves, only via proxy! GENIUS LOGIC.

You know what a real solution is to a government that is easily corruptible? Less government, distributed much more heavily at a local level, none of it with any far reaching and desirable powers, none of it with the authority to steal from one person to line the pockets of another, a government with structure, size and scale that is more comprehensible to the people, giving average citizens more power over where the money is spent and more insight into the actions of the people with the elected responsibility.

[Anymouse]

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Well, not all types of work are really worth something. Like you can't rise anywhere if you work in starbucks, or as a cashier in a grocery store, or you can't rise up in the system as a construction worker, electrician or anything that does not require higher education in a university.
You also can't rise anywhere with a degree in a branch like modern cinema, which is a department that I've only recently heard of, even if you can find work(unless you decide to stay in the university).

However, you can earn a good salary from jobs that result from high-tier education, like law, engineering, natural sciences(like, you know, physics, chemistry, biology and the like, but some will stay in the university, and research departments), economics and the like.

Truly, if you can't find work, it's not just due to the fault of the government, which is certainly at fault in America, however it also depends on the person itself.
I know that university education is not free in America, and it certainly isn't cheap either for good universities(whereas the good universities in Turkey are all free), however, I must say that this also serves a different purpose.
We in Turkey have a large army of unemployed, and well educated men.
We produce more educated people than the system requires, and therefore, many of our engineers, scientists, historians and etc. go to western countries to seek employment.
We are also short on intermediate staff, like technicians, whereas the system in America allows for the training of an amount of educated men to satisfy the need, and takes the rest from abroad, while the rest of the population are composed of the "working class". However, America, being the capitalist country it is, allows for much outsourcing of jobs, since the working class in manufacturing is declining, due to cheap labor in other countries.
I'm not saying that the people there are lazy bums. I'm sure they'd do well with a job that they're given according to their level of skill and education(on which I need some data to determine what exactly could be done to help them). All I'm saying is, that creating jobs is something that requires more money be spent by someone, and no one is willing to spend that money unless it's tied to something more lucrative.

And I want to add that this is not something that is done so lightly. Like, people cannot simply create jobs out of nowhere. The private sector cannot, unless they're expanding, and in the case they're not, they won't. And even in that case it may not be permanent, since competition can always drive you out of business in that area, and force more people to become unemployed. I'm sorry, but those are the hard facts of life.

---

While it is true that "all work isn't worth something," it does not follow that all worthwhile work (or even all good-paying work) requires a university degree.

I only graduated from high school. I never attended college.

After spending seventeen years in the Navy as an aviation electronics technician, I became disabled in a way that prohibits me from working in any aspect of electronics ever again (I developed epilepsy).

I then chose an entirely different field: publishing, more specifically, editing. I applied for work with a Romance publisher as a copyeditor. I only applied with one publishing house. Their advert stated that a degree in literature or English and experience in publishing was required. I had neither.

Several scores of people applied for the position; I was the only one (according to the senior editor at the time) who had the chutzpah to apply without any of the requisite diplomas or experience. They hired me. In our down market. I did not use my Veteran's preference on my application (which wouldn't have mattered anyway since the company was then located in Australia).

Since that time, I have risen to the position of a content editor (the highest editorial position which is not an administrator in the company). On top of that I am the only male in the company.

Editing Romances has zero in common with military electronic warfare and cryptographic equipment maintenance, except that I was able to write my resume to show how it actually does.

My Navy job required writing reports, conducting engineering investigations, writing maintenance and instruction manuals, composing correspondence with military and commercial officials, conducting training, evaluating personnel performance, time management, scheduling tasks, &c ad nauseum. All of these skills are directly applicable to the job of editing.

None of them required me to go to college.

The requirement of publishing experience was filled by reading everything I could lay my hands on about how a publishing house and editing works, and being able to demonstrate that in my interview (over the telephone to Australia, mind you).

My wife and I just moved to another state. Because we don't do things like borrow money for things we can't afford and live on credit, we have money to buy the things we want with cash. We just bought our house.

We are not particularly wealthy: one does not make a lot on enlisted disability pay from the Veterans Administration. We get what we want by identifying what we want, then setting aside or saving real money for it. That way we aren't giving our lives' earnings to a loan shark (Visa, Master Card, &c.)

James

[theVOID]

You're a good example of the right way to do things Anymouse, if more people had your attitude a whole lot less of the world would be fucked.

[Jackalope]

---

Well, not all types of work are really worth something. Like you can't rise anywhere if you work in starbucks, or as a cashier in a grocery store, or you can't rise up in the system as a construction worker, electrician or anything that does not require higher education in a university.
You also can't rise anywhere with a degree in a branch like modern cinema, which is a department that I've only recently heard of, even if you can find work(unless you decide to stay in the university).

However, you can earn a good salary from jobs that result from high-tier education, like law, engineering, natural sciences(like, you know, physics, chemistry, biology and the like, but some will stay in the university, and research departments), economics and the like.

Truly, if you can't find work, it's not just due to the fault of the government, which is certainly at fault in America, however it also depends on the person itself.
I know that university education is not free in America, and it certainly isn't cheap either for good universities(whereas the good universities in Turkey are all free), however, I must say that this also serves a different purpose.
We in Turkey have a large army of unemployed, and well educated men.
We produce more educated people than the system requires, and therefore, many of our engineers, scientists, historians and etc. go to western countries to seek employment.
We are also short on intermediate staff, like technicians, whereas the system in America allows for the training of an amount of educated men to satisfy the need, and takes the rest from abroad, while the rest of the population are composed of the "working class". However, America, being the capitalist country it is, allows for much outsourcing of jobs, since the working class in manufacturing is declining, due to cheap labor in other countries.
I'm not saying that the people there are lazy bums. I'm sure they'd do well with a job that they're given according to their level of skill and education(on which I need some data to determine what exactly could be done to help them). All I'm saying is, that creating jobs is something that requires more money be spent by someone, and no one is willing to spend that money unless it's tied to something more lucrative.

And I want to add that this is not something that is done so lightly. Like, people cannot simply create jobs out of nowhere. The private sector cannot, unless they're expanding, and in the case they're not, they won't. And even in that case it may not be permanent, since competition can always drive you out of business in that area, and force more people to become unemployed. I'm sorry, but those are the hard facts of life.

---

While it may be true that a university degree makes it more likely that someone will be able to find a job with good salary prospects, it is not a requirement.

I graduated from high school and have less than two years of junior college. I also make low six figures in US dollars.

[theVOID]

While it may be true that a university degree makes it more likely that someone will be able to find a job with good salary prospects, it is not a requirement.

I graduated from high school and have less than two years of junior college. I also make low six figures in US dollars.

Allow me to congratulate you while the greedy, envious masses get their pitchforks.

[Autumnlicious]

Already on it...

[Phaedra]

While it may be true that a university degree makes it more likely that someone will be able to find a job with good salary prospects, it is not a requirement.

I graduated from high school and have less than two years of junior college. I also make low six figures in US dollars.

It is also true that having a University degree doesn't guarantee a job and decent salary. Most of my friends who have graduated are either working in the service industry or unemployed. My mother has an MA in nutrition and is an RD, and she can't find a job right now. So much for pulling yourself up by your bootstraps...

[Jackalope]

While it may be true that a university degree makes it more likely that someone will be able to find a job with good salary prospects, it is not a requirement.

I graduated from high school and have less than two years of junior college. I also make low six figures in US dollars.

Allow me to congratulate you while the greedy, envious masses get their pitchforks.

Easy now, fellas - let's not do anything rash.... (Backs away, looking for a pointy stick)

I'm on your side, remember?

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While it may be true that a university degree makes it more likely that someone will be able to find a job with good salary prospects, it is not a requirement.

I graduated from high school and have less than two years of junior college. I also make low six figures in US dollars.

It is also true that having a University degree doesn't guarantee a job and decent salary. Most of my friends who have graduated are either working in the service industry or unemployed. My mother has an MA in nutrition and is an RD, and she can't find a job right now. So much for pulling yourself up by your bootstraps...

Yes, unfortunately that is also true. I have been fortunate to keep the same job for over 12 years. Many of my friends have not been so fortunate.

Unfortunately, in times such as these, many suffer, no matter their education level.