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Ignorant Atheists?
#21
RE: Ignorant Atheists?
Well duh. Of course anyone doing science is a scientist, but most creationists who actually DO science are pretty horrible scientists, if only because they make ridiculously far-fetched assumptions and don't bother verifying them.

In fact, most creationists are NOT scientists at all, because they don't act scientifically, they just collect facts and try to tweak them so they fit in their distorted picture -- they may call it science, but it sure as heck has nothing to do with the Scientific Method.

Here's a pretty drawing:

[Image: religionkv0.png]
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#22
RE: Ignorant Atheists?
(September 30, 2008 at 5:13 am)Alan Wrote: In fact, most creationists are NOT scientists at all, because they don't act scientifically, they just collect facts and try to tweak them so they fit in their distorted picture -- they may call it science, but it sure as heck has nothing to do with the Scientific Method.
I'd agree....I think most scientists are not scientists at all...and I also think that you can't really be a TRUE scientist if you're a creationist at all....because it's just TOO DIFFERENT from science....you can't have a very scientific mind and be very religious too... you can only be half and half or another fraction...they may go side by side...but they're not compatible because they can't BLEND. They're too different...they don't SUPPORT each other. FOR EXAMPLE: a scientist who has a scientific mind that is only half scientific - and the other half is religious - isn't scientific enough to be a REAL scientist. He's just a psuedo-scientist. And as far as I'm concerned a psuedo-scientist is probably not a scientist at all...he's usually a wacko in a lab coat.
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#23
RE: Ignorant Atheists?
Oh, come on. Be fair.

There's many areas where a religious mind has no impact on the results. Religious people CAN be scientific.

It's just when religious assumptions are taken as valid axioms that things go horribly wrong.
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#24
RE: Ignorant Atheists?
(October 1, 2008 at 8:05 am)Alan Wrote: Oh, come on. Be fair.

There's many areas where a religious mind has no impact on the results. Religious people CAN be scientific.

It's just when religious assumptions are taken as valid axioms that things go horribly wrong.
True, true. I just mean they're not a FULL scientist because they think religiously aswell and religious thinking contradicts scientific thinking.

And it CAN...it doesn't always but it CAN always atleast carry the risk of interfering with science...as far as I'm concerned that's not how a proper scientific mind works....

Sure you can get a religious scientist who's religion doesn't interfere with their science - and who still makes some good scientific discoveries - but it always has the potential to...and I don't think the two can go hand in hand in such a way that a religious scientist can be a FULL...PROPER scientist...because there's always the risk of their FAITH f**king up the science when the scientific part of the mind wouldn't f**k it up....that's not how a proper scientist works as far as I'm concerned.

I think regardless of how good a religious scientist may be...their FAITH always runs the risk of f**king everything up....and I think that demotes them from a FULL scientist to atleast a SEMI pseudo-scientist or whatever.

In my mind science and faith are too much of a contradiction to be FULLY and TRULY compatible...regardless of the discoveries...if a religious scientist makes an amazing (scientific) discovery...as far as I'm concerned that's a religious-pseudo-scientist making a brilliant discovery....because he always runs the risk of taking his faith too far and that would be VERY unscientific...just because he might not have....doesn't mean he WON'T.

Simply put: Religious scientists can still be scientists but not TRUE scientists because Religion and Science aren't compatible. So that demotes religious scientists to pseudo-scientists as far as I'm concerned.
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#25
RE: Ignorant Atheists?
(September 4, 2008 at 8:30 pm)Brick-top Wrote: I showed him this:
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA111.html

That link says 0.15% of relevant Scientists are creationists. He kept making more excuses about this too.



I found it astonishing how this person could claim to be logical and then seem to be as closed minded and bigoted as the fanatical creationists he opposes.

It's not surprising that a lot of those people were in more mechanical sciences such as engineering and computer science. I don't see why your friend would get all flustered over 0.15 percent of relevant scientists being creationists. That just debunks the stupid claim that a lot more scientists are coming out against evolution.
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#26
RE: Ignorant Atheists?
(October 1, 2008 at 8:05 am)Alan Wrote: There's many areas where a religious mind has no impact on the results. Religious people CAN be scientific.

That is true but no scientific discipline exists in isolation and given the nature of science and the peer-review process it seem to me that as a scientist or a science adherent you either "buy into" that process or you don't and if you don't, like EVF and others say, you're not a true scientist (IOW you cannot just believe your bit of science is true whilst ignoring the evidences and explanations of other bits).

That said MANY religious people embrace science and quite a few of our best scientists have religious beliefs, Professor Sir John Polkinghorne (I think that's his name) for instance.

Kyu
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#27
RE: Ignorant Atheists?
There are plenty of great scientists in the world that are in some way religious. That does not discredit their work in any way, since the objectivity in science is always garantueed by peer review in the scientific method.

As for Creationism, if the scientists that do give credence to ID want to have it taught in class, they should do it as any science, by making a hypothesis, testing the hypothesis, write peer reviewed papers, have them published in a science journal, and have their tests replicated by others. Then after an agreement by most scientists in the field, there is nothing stopping creationists calling ID science.
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
Pastafarian
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#28
RE: Ignorant Atheists?
On atheist.net I posted about if religious scientists can be "true" scientists. At first maybe (like on this thread) I came across as going a bit too far. But in the end I think I got across what I believe. Here in this post of mine on atheist.net, replying to a member called GordonHide (I'm called 'Improbable' on Atheist.net):
Quote:Originally Posted by GordonHide
Well I've never read Dawkins' book but I'm certain he doesn't say that religious scientists were worse scientists because of their religion.
I (as Improbable) reply with:
Quote:Nor am I saying that. I'm just saying that today, in 2008 the greatest scientists are more likely to be atheists. Especially if you consider that there are less atheist people altogether than theist people, scientist or not. And yet the greatest scientists of today are still often atheists.
And in 2008 the important scientific God Hypothesis is a question that the most intelligent scientists should know the scientific answer to. Because they're scientists. Rather than thinking they're separate. Thats very unscientific for a scientist in this day and age. Whether they are otherwise great scientists or not. The question of God's existence is one of the most important scientific questions to ask. So to get that wrong in this day and age downgrades them I think.
I mean if there was [a] brilliant scientist in many ways but he/she didn't believe in evolution or even thought the world was flat, what would you think then?
Science isn't about usefulness. That's invention. It isn't about what Dawkins would call 'non-stick frying pan science', its about answering scientific questions. And the question of God's existence is a very important scientific question indeed.
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#29
RE: Ignorant Atheists?
(September 4, 2008 at 8:30 pm)Brick-top Wrote: I've heard from several people in debates that Atheists are logical, open minded, reasonable etc.
Some atheists are logical, open minded and reasonable. The majority of online atheists appear to be nothing but disgruntled Christians.

Quote:I was in a debate with an Atheist over the population of Theists in the Scientific community. He thought roughly 90% of Scientists were Atheistic.
He is wrong. 70% of the scientific field disbelief in a higher power. But these same atheists all agree that they cannot disprove a higher power.

Quote:I showed him this:
http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/0...s_god.html

This link shows that 70% of Scientists believed in God. I thought the conversation would be over but he kept making excuses like it was a bias study or they lied and he was practically denying it as if it wasn't there.
Your sources are correct. The percentage of atheistic-scientists are roughly around seventy percent.

Quote:Then he made claims saying that all believers are creationists and they think that the Earth is 6000 years old and we're all made in the way we are in the present.
I'm a devout Christian and I believe the earth is 4 billion years old.

Quote:I showed him this:
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA111.html

That link says 0.15% of relevant Scientists are creationists. He kept making more excuses about this too.
Once again, this is also true. But does that mean creation is false?

Quote:I found it astonishing how this person could claim to be logical and then seem to be as closed minded and bigoted as the fanatical creationists he opposes.
I believe everything was created before it could evolve. Before creation, evolution didn't exist. We are living under certain laws of the Universe, that's why it's possible for our bodies to adapt to the earth's rapid climate change. Imagine human-kind if we didn't adapt? Yikes!

Darwin was Catholic. Smile
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#30
RE: Ignorant Atheists?
(November 28, 2008 at 11:47 am)Psalm 23 Wrote: Darwin was Catholic. Smile
To paraphrase your own post:-

This may be true. But does that mean catholicism is right? Wink

Just because someone else believes something doesn't necessarily make it right, not even if they are much cleverer than you are yourself.
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