What we lack?

[Norfolk And Chance]

Yes I do.

I disagree that it should be labelled a spiritual experience

[Shell B]

Yes, atheists can be spiritual. Simple. Being spiritual is not being religious. You can be one and the other, but they are individual traits.

[Norfolk And Chance]

Surely meditation and emotional experiences are conscious human experiences not spiritual ones? I do not agree with the definition of spiritual at all. We cannot get away from the fact that part of the definition of spiritual concerns spirits and belief in souls and deities, and somehow human and emotional experiences have been lumped in with it.

I disregard the word spiritual as essentially meaningless because according to the wikipedia definition it represents 4 completely different concepts.

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I love the word meaningless by the way. Lots of stuff is meaningless to me, maybe because I don't "get it".

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Can atheism have a spirituality?

By 'spirituality' I'm assuming you mean that nebulous something which exists outside of and transcends the human body.IE mind/body dualism.

Technically,of course an atheist may be a dualist; atheism is only a disbelief in gods.

In practical terms,this skeptic and materialsit who is also an atheist cannot accept the existence of the spiritual. Same basis as my atheism; lack of credible evidence.

00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

In philosophy of mind
Main article: Dualism (philosophy of mind)
In philosophy of mind, dualism is any of a narrow variety of views about the relationship between mind and matter, which claims that mind and matter are two ontologically separate categories. In particular, mind-body dualism claims that neither the mind nor matter can be reduced to each other in any way, and thus is opposed to materialism in general, and reductive materialism in particular. Mind-body dualism can exist as substance dualism which claims that the mind and the body are composed of a distinct substance, and as property dualism which claims that there may not be a distinction in substance, but that mental and physical properties are still categorically distinct, and not reducible to each other. This type of dualism is sometimes referred to as "mind and body" and stands in contrast to philosophical monism, which views mind and matter as being ultimately the same kind of thing. See also Cartesian dualism, substance dualism, epiphenomenalism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism

[Norfolk And Chance]

You said what I wanted to say, only better, more quickly, and more clearly. Thanks.

[The Profit Ezekiel]

Great thread. When I first read Harris' End of Faith, I had a hard time with the "spiritual" concept as well. I don't believe in any sorts of gods, spirits, ghosts or the after-life, I don't believe we need a religion to teach us morality, but after thinking about this, I can get behind Harris' ideas of meditation and spirituality. Personally, I do feel a need for a connectedness to a greater whole, and maybe a combination of meditation and some clean, mind-expanding substances could help us all get a clearer perspective.

[JollyForr]

By spiritual, it simply means what I mentioned earlier; it isn't a belief in a spiritual, magical world full of pixies; it's within reality. I guess you could call it something else, but it's just the progression of language. Like the word 'soul', doesn't just mean soul in the religious sense anymore.

[Norfolk And Chance]

By spiritual, it simply means what I mentioned earlier; it isn't a belief in a spiritual.

Well don't call it spiritual then.

Whatever next? Murder but not in the murdering sense? I tickle your feet until you laugh, I haven't murdered you but it's murder? I'd just call it tickling you.

I do get what you are trying to say, so there is no point going over it again. Just I have major, major problems with the word spiritual in the context you are using it. Sam Harris and the like need to come up with a different word, like humanist or something.

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Personally, I do feel a need for a connectedness to a greater whole

"A need"? It seems that you are looking for something. Why would there be anything to find?

This connectedness to a greater whole or whatever is a concept that requires faith and belief it actually exists. Next stop deism.

[The Profit Ezekiel]

By spiritual, it simply means what I mentioned earlier; it isn't a belief in a spiritual.

Well don't call it spiritual then.

Whatever next? Murder but not in the murdering sense? I tickle your feet until you laugh, I haven't murdered you but it's murder? I'd just call it tickling you.

I do get what you are trying to say, so there is no point going over it again. Just I have major, major problems with the word spiritual in the context you are using it. Sam Harris and the like need to come up with a different word, like humanist or something.

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Personally, I do feel a need for a connectedness to a greater whole

"A need"? It seems that you are looking for something.
Well, yes, of course, aren't you?

Why would there be anything to find?
Again, this isn't about anything specific or tangible. I have a hard time with words sometimes, let me pull from The End Of Faith by Sam Harris, "The basis of our spirituality surely consists in this: the range of possible human experience far exceeds the ordinary limits of our subjectivity. Clearly, some experiences can utterly transform a person's vision of the world. Every spiritual tradition rests on the insight that how we use our attention, from moment to moment, largely determines the quality of our lives. Many of the results of spiritual practice are genuinely desirable, and we owe it to ourselves to seek them out. It is important to note that these changes are not merely emotional but cognitive and conceptual as well. Just as it is possible for us to have insights in fields like mathematics or biology, it is possible for us to have insights about the very nature of our own subjectivity. A variety of techniques, ranging from the practice of meditation to the use of psychedelic drugs, attest to the scope and plasticity of human experience. For millennia, contemplatives have known that ordinary people can divest themselves of the feeling that they call "I" and thereby relinquish the sense that they are separate from the rest of the universe. This phenomenon, which has been reported by practitioners in many spiritual traditions, is supported by a wealth of evidence—neuroscientific, philosophical, and intro- spective. Such experiences are "spiritual" or "mystical," for want of better words, in that they are relatively rare (unnecessarily so), significant (in that they uncover genuine facts about the world), and personally transformative. They also reveal a far deeper connection between ourselves and the rest of the universe than is suggested by the ordinary confines of our subjectivity."
Sorry for the length but it is such a difficult concept for me to try to express. I think Sam gets very close to it here though.

This connectedness to a greater whole or whatever is a concept that requires faith and belief it actually exists. Next stop deism.
I can see how you can draw that connection but don't agree that it has to be deism. This "greater whole or whatever" is exactly right, a "whatever". A great big placeholder for "I don't know". A feeling of something more, something greater, something universal. Not necessarily a god, creator, architect, like in deism. Not a being of any sort, just an unaccounted-for level of human consciousness that allows us to remove the "I", and sit in the now to observe.
Man that sounds bad. Should not have read that into to Philosophy...because I have no idea what I'm talking about.

[houseofcantor]

Can atheism be spiritual? No, it cannot.

Kind of atheist am I? Job 38 kind - kind that stands up to the Universe when the Universe is mouthing off going, "yeah, what else you got?"

That's why I'm Temple of Set. Left-hand path. Universe with science will only tell you so much, then you gotta go within to know the without. But Left-hand is all individuals. Atheism for me is in terms of the original Greek - I don't believe in your god - and you, sure as shit, don't have to believe in mine. That keeps shit real.