Seriously.

[Jackalope]

I do believe there is a generous food stamp program in every state. Just making a stab here but I'd guess she probably receives about $300-$400 a month in food stamps. That $75 a month won't cause the devastation you speak of to their food supply. I'd also ask about any housing assistance received.
Before you ask, it gets paid for out of everyones 10%.

She qualified for food stamps when she was unemployed, but not when she was working, and never for housing or utility assistance or any other form of aid.

I appear to hold that position? The poor are lazy? Did I not state my income? Did I ever tell you about my upbringing?

A long, long way from 'cozy middle-class'. No sir. I do not hold the position that all poor people are lazy.

That's not what the position that was attributing to you - sorry it was not clear. What I was referring to was the fairness of a flat tax with no deductions, exemptions or credits.

This is just an attempt to grab at the heart-strings. Nice try, but as you can see I have none.

Clearly.

I am a 'working poor'. I get no such credits. My tax form is "What did you earn?" "No wife and kids? Goto line XX." "Here's the tax amount on what you earn" And it is usually approx. 10%.
After taxes I net approx. 22,500. How far away is that from what you said your friend earns? I believe you said 19,000. $3500. OH BOY!! She made $3500 less than me yet we give her a check for $4000?!

$9000. NINE thousand.

Not responding to the rest as it's based on a faulty assumption.

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Incidentally, if your gross income is $25K, you file single and take the standard deduction and personal exemption, your tax would be a little less than $1900, which is pretty close to 7.5%. Source: 2011 IRS tax tables. 2010 would not have been significantly different.

[Minimalist]

And where did that $4000 check come from? OUR pockets. It didn't magically appear, she got a piece of that from me. All my love to your friend, but if you don't mind helping her then YOU help her. Why am I obliged to hand her some of mine? There is no issue with clarity here, you are failing to provide adequate reasons why I need to pay more of my income, or actually provide income in the case of your friend, than another?

So what you are really talking about is greed, Dote. Specifically your own.
Thank you for being honest.

That's more than one gets from most of these fucks.

[rhonin85]

so your argument is stop taking my money in the form of a tax refund instead get on welfare? Which I'm guessing if she only makes 9000 a yr she probably already is. As for food stamps, that program is cutting back my wife and I both make close to minimum wage shes only part time and we still do not qualify for food stamps. You act like it is a waste of tax dollars giving some extra to help to someone who needs it? I have yet to hear you complain about how all the corporations and wealthy find tax loopholes to avoid paying. I'm pretty sure they are getting out of paying more than a measly 4000.

[The Grand Nudger]

I could give you all sorts of lovey dovey explanations as to why those with children receive tax breaks (the same sorts of lovey dovey shit the govt peddles when explaining them), however, it boils down to one thing. The government is investing in a potential for profit. Those children will grow up and pay taxes. They have the potential to increase the overall wealth of the country (specifically the government, through taxes). The better a situation those children find themselves in the more likely they are to be successful and ergo the more likely the investment the govt has made will return a larger profit (or any profit). That's the practical explanation. Of course we do like to help each other, and the measure of a society has been said to be in it's least fortunate, so there's always that. I have plenty of kids, I get the income credits, still doesn't cover the cost of raising a kid. Not even close. The taxes I paid before credits and when my children are gone and paying taxes themselves will cover the amount I'm "given" more than ten times over (if it hasn't already). Never ever imagine that the government is handing anything out for free. That's giving them far too much credit. If you don't wish to be a part of this system, that "gives" a helping hand to the less fortunate, you're free to move somewhere else. Somewhere this doesn't occur and the situation is better for you economically? Call it the cost of doing business, I suppose.

The people for whom these credits are designed will one day be your prison guards, your cops. The guys who fix your leaking sewers and downed power lines. They'll take out your garbage. Hell, they might invent the pacemaker you have installed All of this assumes they avoid prison and poverty long enough to secure such a job (and the education required to do so) in the first place. Importantly, they will pay the taxes that cover your medical expenses when the weight of the bills annihilate whatever meager amount of money you've managed to save in your days as a member of the employed, or when your insurance company decides enough is enough and they hold out their hands towards the fed for subsidies to cover the same. In the long run they don't need you even half as much as you need them, and they will outlive you and your opinions.

[Dotard]

Dotard, throwing a little tantrum about your taxes going to needy people in your country is the outward display of one's inner ugliness. It's just pathetic.

Attack the presenter and not the presentation. Nice. ..|.,

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$9000. NINE thousand.

Not responding to the rest as it's based on a faulty assumption.

Sorry. My bad, I misread that. Thank you for ignoring the rest.

Incidentally, if your gross income is $25K, you file single and take the standard deduction and personal exemption, your tax would be a little less than $1900, which is pretty close to 7.5%. Source: 2011 IRS tax tables. 2010 would not have been significantly different.

I said approx. I suck at math, sue me.

[Jackalope]

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$9000. NINE thousand.

Not responding to the rest as it's based on a faulty assumption.

Sorry. My bad, I misread that. Thank you for ignoring the rest.

Incidentally, if your gross income is $25K, you file single and take the standard deduction and personal exemption, your tax would be a little less than $1900, which is pretty close to 7.5%. Source: 2011 IRS tax tables. 2010 would not have been significantly different.

I said approx. I suck at math, sue me.

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No prob - I think we've hashed this out pretty thoroughly. LOL

[5thHorseman]

Don't even bother.

As far as Dotard sees it, you get your greedy paws on it, you can do whatever you want with it.

Even if you have accumulated an amount that is economically damaging.

But hey, maybe if you suck enough rich cock, they'll reward you, right?

That's the thing isnt it.

Bill Gates and his $5billion a year is worth far less then say, 1000 people who's salary's total $5billion in a flat tax system and economically he cannot physically spend that kinda cash, where as my 1000 people can and will, a progressive tax system helps to alleviate some of that problem.

Flat tax keeps the money at the top and is a shit idea, the whole point of progressive tax is so the stinking rich pay their fair share back to the society that fed them their cash and then you can lower the taxes of the lowest, giving them higher spending power, so the rich do not lose, the lowest will still buy Gates's stuff but will have more money to spend on it. We have that in the UK, although our conservatives want to lower the highest brackets, but they thankfully, don't dare.

Apple and their $70 billion cash in the bank, it's dead money. As is the money of Gates et al as is just sits in a bank.

If you look at America's amazing boom years in the 50/60's, the country's wealth didn't come from billionaires, it was the middle class and much of the current economic problem stems from the ridiculously low taxes the top earners pay now, if they had higher taxes for the rich they could use the extra revenue to provide jobs. I saw on The Young Turks that for every $1b, that could provide 18000 military jobs (If your Mitt Romney), or up to 27000 jobs in the education system, which given that 60% of Americans think the world is less than 10000 years old would be money well spent.

Oh lastly, the tax cuts bush bought in cost America around $70b a year, easy math to find out the jobs that would create and how much stimulus that would give the economy.

[5thHorseman]

Just done a bit of quick maths in my head and i think if the money used from the Bush tax cuts going back into the economy to create jobs, it would lower unemployment figures from 8.6% to around 7.85%(top of my head), how do like dem apples Republicans?

So, money not being spent or money on the move creating jobs and fertilising the economy?

Such a no brainer.

[Dotard]

Still just addressing the rich. Not one comment about other low income folks being forced to subsidize the life choices of other low income people.

[downbeatplumb]

Still just addressing the rich. Not one comment about other low income folks being forced to subsidize the life choices of other low income people.

Thats because they arent the problem, the problem is the rich keeping all the money to themselves.