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RE: Actual Infinities
October 28, 2015 at 4:22 pm
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2015 at 4:24 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(October 28, 2015 at 3:29 pm)Mathilda Wrote: (October 28, 2015 at 2:48 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Abstractions exist only in the mind. Some things, like the Principle of Non-Contradiction (PCR), exist independently of any mind.
No it doesn't.
Logic is a man-made concept used to represent and reason about the world. The same with Maths.
If the human race was wiped out then logic and the principle of non-contradiction would not exist.
If you disagree with me, then bring me a True or a False. Are saying that before humans existed and after they are gone it is possible for something to both be and not be simultaneously and in all respects?
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RE: Actual Infinities
October 28, 2015 at 4:29 pm
(October 28, 2015 at 4:22 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Are saying that before humans existed and after they are gone it is possible for something to both be and not be simultaneously and in all respects?
No.
Your very sentence implies an external observer reasoning about something as being or not being. If you wiped out all intelligent life than they wouldn't be making that observation.
True and False are values that we apply to something. Like the number 1, 2, 3 etc.
We have one apple, two apples etc There is no such thing as just a One, or a Two.
Maths is made up. Logic is made up.
Which logic do you think would exist even if the human race were wiped out? First order logic? Second order logic? Modal logic? Fuzzy logic?
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RE: Actual Infinities
October 28, 2015 at 4:32 pm
You are conflating knowledge of being with being.
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RE: Actual Infinities
October 28, 2015 at 4:35 pm
(October 28, 2015 at 4:32 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: You are conflating knowledge of being with being.
OK explain how the Principle of Non-Contradiction (PCR) can exist independently of any mind.
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RE: Actual Infinities
October 28, 2015 at 4:52 pm
(October 28, 2015 at 4:35 pm)Mathilda Wrote: (October 28, 2015 at 4:32 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: You are conflating knowledge of being with being.
OK explain how the Principle of Non-Contradiction (PCR) can exist independently of any mind.
Explain how an intelligible reality could exist without it?
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RE: Actual Infinities
October 28, 2015 at 5:13 pm
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2015 at 5:16 pm by I_am_not_mafia.)
(October 28, 2015 at 4:52 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (October 28, 2015 at 4:35 pm)Mathilda Wrote: OK explain how the Principle of Non-Contradiction (PCR) can exist independently of any mind.
Explain how an intelligible reality could exist without it?
Take one Big Bang when there is nothing but energy.
Space-time expands and the universe starts to cool. Quantum irregularities mean that it develops thermodynamic gradients which allow self organisation to occur.
First matter is created from energy, then rudimentary chemistry self organises from the matter. This creates the first generation of stars which produce more complex chemistry. This leads to solar systems with planets where the chemicals self organise into biological organisms through abiogenesis. This develops into Darwinian evolution which produces intelligence followed by society, leading to academic pursuit and someone coming up with the Principle of Non-contradiction. Later the scientific method is developed which allows for reality to be reasoned about.
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RE: Actual Infinities
October 28, 2015 at 5:16 pm
(October 28, 2015 at 4:52 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (October 28, 2015 at 4:35 pm)Mathilda Wrote: OK explain how the Principle of Non-Contradiction (PCR) can exist independently of any mind.
Explain how an intelligible reality could exist without it?
How do you know all reality is intelligible for all time?
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RE: Actual Infinities
October 28, 2015 at 5:19 pm
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2015 at 5:19 pm by I_am_not_mafia.)
(October 28, 2015 at 5:16 pm)Chuck Wrote: (October 28, 2015 at 4:52 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Explain how an intelligible reality could exist without it?
How do you know all reality is intelligible for all time?
And by whom. For something to be intelligible, there needs to be someone ... intelligibilising an observer.
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RE: Actual Infinities
October 28, 2015 at 5:24 pm
(October 28, 2015 at 5:19 pm)Mathilda Wrote: (October 28, 2015 at 5:16 pm)Chuck Wrote: How do you know all reality is intelligible for all time?
And by whom. For something to be intelligible, there needs to be someone ... intelligibilising an observer.
Not so. An object capable of being known can exist before anyone knows about it.
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RE: Actual Infinities
October 28, 2015 at 5:29 pm
(October 28, 2015 at 5:24 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (October 28, 2015 at 5:19 pm)Mathilda Wrote: And by whom. For something to be intelligible, there needs to be someone ... intelligibilising an observer.
Not so. An object capable of being known can exist before anyone knows about it.
An object can only be capable of being known if there is an observer capable of knowing about it.
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