Remove Christianity and civilization would soon smell better.

[Confused Ape]

Maybe he wasn't the right person. Maybe he was, and the results of the experiment are what led him to Christianity.

We can only speculate about it because it happened in the 19th century. There weren't many religions in the USA to choose from in those days so after trying spiritualism he ended up with Christianity - Later Conversion To Christianity

It is not clear if Walser's later Christianity was a hybrid with his earlier spiritualism, but he did author a book entitled The Life and Teachings of Jesus.

This is possible because many spiritualists believe in Jesus - The Differences Between Spiritualism And Christianity

Both accept the Bible and both believe Jesus was a human being who lived and taught. Christians see Jesus as their Savior. If they confess their sins and believe upon him, they are saved and will enter heaven. Spiritualists see Jesus as the Master Teacher or the person who showed us the way we should strive to become in our daily lives. The term “Wayshower” is frequently used in this connection. Both accept One God although the premise is different. Spiritualists accept God as Infinite Intelligence – an androgynous spirit being of neither sex but of unlimited knowledge in all matters while Christians see God as an anthropomorphic or father figure god.

From the wikipedia article again -

By surviving accounts, he didn't try to push his new beliefs on others.

Well, he knew what it was like to be harassed by Christians so I'm guessing he didn't want to inflict that on others.

We have no idea if he'd ever heard of the Theosophical Society which Helena Blavatsky founded in New York in 1875 so we can't say that he chose Christianity instead of Theosophy. We have no idea what religion he'd have converted to if he'd lived in our time. For all we know he might have become a Wiccan or ended up believing in Quantum Mysticism.

Either way, this experiment should carry more weight with people who claim to live life based on evidence than idle speculation on an atheist forum, don'tcha think?

In what way? I see it as yet another example of human behaviour in relation to religion. Some people stay with the religion they were raised in all their lives. Some people start out in one religion and change to another. Some religious people end up as atheists. Some atheists end up converting to a religion. Don't ask me why because I have no idea.

[John V]

In what way?

In that it was a failure. I'm speaking of the whole town, not just the founder. A place was set aside for freethinkers and it didn't last. If OTOH it had thrived that would have been evidence in favor of the OP.

[Rampant.A.I.]

He'd spent all his life looking for something and finally found it in Christianity. This is fair enough because some people need religion. It does suggest, however, that had doubts about atheism which wouldn't have made him the best person to run the experiment. After all, somebody who has doubts about Christianity wouldn't be the best person to run a social experiment based on Christianity.

Maybe he wasn't the right person. Maybe he was, and the results of the experiment are what led him to Christianity. Either way, this experiment should carry more weight with people who claim to live life based on evidence than idle speculation on an atheist forum, don'tcha think?

And yet we have significant evidence regardless of a flawed experiment that Omega Male will simply ignore.

http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-hu...d-religion

[Confused Ape]

In that it was a failure. I'm speaking of the whole town, not just the founder. A place was set aside for freethinkers and it didn't last. If OTOH it had thrived that would have been evidence in favor of the OP.

Maybe it failed because they were overrun by Christians of the obnoxious bigot variety who were determined to convert them - The Founding Of Liberal

He bought 2,000 acres (8 km2) of land and advertised across the country for atheists to come and

"found a town without a church, [w]here unbelievers could bring up their children without religious training," and where Christians were not allowed. "His idea was to build up a town that should exclusively be the home of Infidels...a town that should have neither God, Hell, Church, nor Saloon." Some of the early inhabitants of Liberal even encouraged other infidels to move to their town by publishing an advertisement which boasted that Liberal "is the only town of its size in the United States without a priest, preacher, church, saloon, God, Jesus, hell or devil."

Walser should have known that this would be like the proverbial red rag to a bull.

Christians found Liberal to be a perfect mission field.

As news spread about Liberal, Christians came to convert the town. Walser tried to keep them out by posting his followers at the Liberal train station to tell passengers that if they were Christians they were not welcome, according to an 1896 article in The Kansas City Star. They came anyway. Some Christians quietly bought homes and began holding religious services. Walser would interrupt them and even put a stop to it after he proved to a court that the services were being held on properties he still partly owned. The Christians then bought land next to Liberal and moved more than a dozen houses there from Liberal. The last building had a sign attached that said: "And the Lord said: Get thee out of Sodom." Walser then built a barbed wire fence to keep them out of Liberal. It was time to fulfill the original aim of the town to "enjoy the full benefits of free American citizens without having some self-appointed bigot dictate to us what we should think." (Kansas City Star on Saturday, December 22, 2001)

I was amazed to read this bit of reporting from 1938.

Regarding the adjoining town that the Christians created:

In an effort to throw off the yoke of Walser the Christians purchased an eighty-acre tract of land adjoining the town, called the place Pedro and moved their houses and places of business out of Liberal. (Sikeston (Missouri) Herald, December 1, 1938)

How could the Christians claim they were throwing off the yoke of Walser? He'd made it perfectly clear that he didn't want Christians in his town and yet they'd infiltrated by buying homes and holding religious services on property which wasn't theirs.

I haven't found any information about what happened to the other freethinkers in the town. This suggests that there wasn't a mass conversion for the Christians to crow about. I'm guessing that most of them got fed up with all the hostility and moved elsewhere.

[Chas]

Go to Liberal, MO and see the results for yourself.

And, guess what? Every religious utopian community has failed as well.

So, there's that.

[Vox]

Ok, I know I'm going to be goping against the majority here, but I voted for the last option. I actually think a world without Christianity would actually be a very troubled world indeed.

I mean, lets look at charity for instance. Like them or loathe them the Catholic Church is one of if not the biggest funder/provider of healthcare in the world. In Australia, Ireland, and even across some parts of the US a sizeable chunk of the health system is upheld by the Catholic Church alone (I'm sure other denominations chip in themselves, I'm only focusing on Catholicism here because it's something I've been doing a lot of work on latley).

Then there's also the Education system; in Ireland the vast majority of Irish schools are funded in part or ran entirely by the Catholic Church. This is true of Argentina, Brazil, Portugal and several other nations. If the Christians go poof who's going to fund this, the state itself currently can't and I'm doubtful that anyone else is going to take up the slack. Whatever it does in other areas, a good number of countries are highly dependent on support from Christian Church's just to function.

Secondly...Let's think about what the Church's actually teach, they're often accused of brainwashing and mindcontrol right? Let's go with that for a moment. IS anyone here aquanited with Voltaire? He claimed that while he didn't belive in the Christian deity, he very much expected his servants to. Why? Because despite how bad some of them behave, the fear of hell is a powerful hold. Some people who might be tempted to steal if they think they will get away with it won't, because they think they're always being watched. A murderous thought might be quashed, because they fear the wrath of Satan.

I personally do think there is a God, but even if they're isn't, has anyone actually devised a more ingenious crime deterrent than "invisible sky daddy police"? You can throw a tea towel over a camera but you can't hide from Jesus. It's free, it's somewhat effective and it takes little to no effort to implement.

Just my thoughts on the topic. Don't get me wrong, some things some of them teach like the gays are satanic priests are well fucking crazy and could do with being put on a tight leash, but I recognize how useful they can be in other areas.