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RE: Morality and downloading
April 17, 2015 at 4:58 am
I don't get how pirates can act high and mighty when they are stealing luxuries like video games, music and etc. You don't need luxuries to live. You're not a hero sticking it to the man. It's people working for the man who get pay cuts and laid off because of the loss of profit.
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RE: Morality and downloading
April 17, 2015 at 8:17 am
(This post was last modified: April 17, 2015 at 8:18 am by Quatermass.)
(April 13, 2015 at 5:34 pm)bennyboy Wrote: I'm curious about the moral arguments for and against downloading-- specifically for downloading games, images/data and applications for free when the creating company intended for all users to make a purchase. I don't care so much whether it's right or wrong-- but on what basis the moral arguments are to be made.
For example, how does the concept of social contract apply here? How are "right" and "wrong" defined in terms of data?
It seems to me that very many people do download things, and with a clean conscience, because they don't believe that any social contract exists, and that downloading is therefore a-moral rather than immoral. Ideas?
(And please don't just shout "Downloading is stealing!" I'm looking for a moral framework in which decisions can sensibly be made)
I download on the basis of two factors:
1) That whatever I want is no longer commercially available (like old computer games or books that are out of print). Or whatever I want is not made for my platform (mac) by the original developer/publisher and someone has made a port of it.
2) Try before you buy. If I missed a film at the cinema, then I'll download the DVDrip (but not the camcorder) from wherever and watch it. If the film was good, I'll go and buy the DVD because I'll actually want to own the physical copy. If the film wasn't good, well, I've saved myself some money.
I think many of the arguments against downloading are fallacial. You're not really harming the DVD industry since a film's cast/crew doesn't make any money from DVD sales, only the corporations do. That and downloading has actually seen an increase in DVD sales in the past while services such as LoveFilm and Netflix have caused DVD sales to drop dramatically.
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RE: Morality and downloading
April 17, 2015 at 9:08 am
I have to say that after 15 pages, I find the "downloading is illegal" group more philosophically convincing. My own arguments weren't really moral ones-- more about whether I should care about being moral in a given context.
I guess I'd say it like this-- some acts are clearly immoral, but whether we should CARE about being moral in this or that context is another issue. Maybe we need a new word-- metamorality.
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RE: Morality and downloading
April 17, 2015 at 9:11 am
(This post was last modified: April 17, 2015 at 9:12 am by Quatermass.)
(April 17, 2015 at 9:08 am)bennyboy Wrote: I have to say that after 15 pages, I find the "downloading is illegal" group more philosophically convincing. My own arguments weren't really moral ones-- more about whether I should care about being moral in a given context.
I guess I'd say it like this-- some acts are clearly immoral, but whether we should CARE about being moral in this or that context is another issue. Maybe we need a new word-- metamorality.
But downloading being illegal has little to do with morality (in the same way that murder and rape are) and everything to do with profit margins.
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RE: Morality and downloading
April 17, 2015 at 9:14 am
(This post was last modified: April 17, 2015 at 9:15 am by Pizza.)
(April 17, 2015 at 9:08 am)bennyboy Wrote: I have to say that after 15 pages, I find the "downloading is illegal" group more philosophically convincing. My own arguments weren't really moral ones-- more about whether I should care about being moral in a given context.
I guess I'd say it like this-- some acts are clearly immoral, but whether we should CARE about being moral in this or that context is another issue. Maybe we need a new word-- metamorality. It's more a distinction between reasons for action and motives for action. Like we may have legal reasons to not perform an action, but have a motive to break the law.
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
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RE: Morality and downloading
April 17, 2015 at 5:26 pm
(April 17, 2015 at 9:11 am)Quatermass Wrote: (April 17, 2015 at 9:08 am)bennyboy Wrote: I have to say that after 15 pages, I find the "downloading is illegal" group more philosophically convincing. My own arguments weren't really moral ones-- more about whether I should care about being moral in a given context.
I guess I'd say it like this-- some acts are clearly immoral, but whether we should CARE about being moral in this or that context is another issue. Maybe we need a new word-- metamorality.
But downloading being illegal has little to do with morality (in the same way that murder and rape are) and everything to do with profit margins.
I agree to a degree. Especially in my example of a Youtube video in which you show a moment of your life with music playing in the background, I think fair use laws should be a lot more generous. However, is it moral just to ignore a law because you think it is bad, or shouldn't apply to you? Remember Socrates and the poison?
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RE: Morality and downloading
April 17, 2015 at 5:32 pm
(April 17, 2015 at 5:26 pm)bennyboy Wrote: (April 17, 2015 at 9:11 am)Quatermass Wrote: But downloading being illegal has little to do with morality (in the same way that murder and rape are) and everything to do with profit margins.
However, is it moral just to ignore a law because you think it is bad, or shouldn't apply to you?
I neither think it's bad nor good. It is what it is: a protection of corporate investments. I have no investment in that corporation and the act of downloading does not cause human harm or suffering, so the law is irrelevant to me. I will download within a given range of what I personally find to be acceptable.
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RE: Morality and downloading
April 17, 2015 at 5:33 pm
(April 17, 2015 at 9:14 am)Pizza Wrote: It's more a distinction between reasons for action and motives for action. Like we may have legal reasons to not perform an action, but have a motive to break the law.
Good point also. I think a couple have been very critical of downloading, here. But is there any person here who NEVER disregards any law for personal convenience? How about speed laws? Tax laws? Is there anyone who tries to follow all laws, all the time? Or do different personal circumstances lead to different motives?
I have a feeling, for example, that those with lower incomes will be more likely to download PC games. But I'd bet that those with higher incomes would be more likely to get "creative" on taxes, or to "forget" to report some of their cash income, or to speed a little on their way to the office to beat the rush-hour traffic.
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RE: Morality and downloading
April 17, 2015 at 5:34 pm
(This post was last modified: April 17, 2015 at 5:40 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
The law doesn't state that it is illegal to steal the ip -of corporations- exclusively, so far as I'm aware. Though, obviously, we see alot more of that than anything else. Whether or not someone else breaks some other law, or many laws, won;t make it any better or worse, morally, for one to break a law themselves. In the end, on my end, I think its wrong..I know it's illegal..but yeah, I've ripped a few this or thats - I don't lose any sleep over it. Metamorality ftw!
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RE: Morality and downloading
April 17, 2015 at 5:35 pm
(This post was last modified: April 17, 2015 at 5:37 pm by bennyboy.)
(April 17, 2015 at 5:32 pm)Quatermass Wrote: I neither think it's bad nor good. It is what it is: a protection of corporate investments. I have no investment in that corporation and the act of downloading does not cause human harm or suffering, so the law is irrelevant to me. I will download within a given range of what I personally find to be acceptable. I don't know if you're American (I'm not), but I think that some secretly see downloading as a mini Boston Tea Party: the laws are excessive and unfair, so fuck the man. Right? 
(April 17, 2015 at 5:34 pm)Rhythm Wrote: The law doesn't state that it is illegal to steal the ip -of corporations- exclusively, so far as I'm aware. Though, obviously, we see alot more of that than anything else. That doesn't mean the law wasn't made for them. There are also double standards: music companies get to shake people down for thousands of dollors; but porn companies get their cases thrown out as frivolous "set ups."
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