RE: Proving God Existence
November 17, 2013 at 7:26 am
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2013 at 7:29 am by Muslim Scholar.)
(November 12, 2013 at 11:14 am)paulpablo Wrote: I wroteThe two statements are different
Quote: If water can exist at the beginning of time with god then this means that other entities could have existed with god as long as they were static.
Muslim scholar wrote
Quote:This is outside the scope of the proof
Such answers are found only by revelation.
But then earlier you wrote.
Quote:G must be one unit as if there are more than one entity time can be related to each other, but as time did not exist, then G is one UN-separated self-dependent unit
(The Eternal, The one, The self sufficient)
So before you said G must be one unit and there could not be another entity, now you have changed your mind and said there could be another entity that exists if it was static.
And you still haven't shown me where in the quran it does say the universe was made from water, there are only verses which say he made it from nothing.
When I said G is one unit, I mean that he is not parts, one part lead the action of another like humans (brain, organs, etc.)
The proof is about proving the existence of and external deity/starter to the universe
I cannot answer all questions from a logical proof, the proof is just leading to a conclusion; nothing more
As for the water thing, the water is mentioned in some Hadith of Prophet Mohamed, and mentioned in the Quran as well; but it not very clear if the water was the first thing that God created or God created other things from it
11:7 He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days - and His Throne was over the Waters - that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. But if thou wert to say to them, "Ye shall indeed be raised up after death," the Unbelievers would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious sorcery!"
(November 12, 2013 at 8:28 pm)bennyboy Wrote: I believe, paulpablo, he said that "nothing" is an incorrect translation, and that it better translates as something like "water."When god used the word "Water" it doesn't have to be H2O
However, water is hydrogen+oxygen, which require both space and time in which to exist, so making the universe OUT of it would be paradoxical.
It is just an approximation to what we don't know
Quote: But it doesn't matter, and here's why: every statement that answers the philosophical question "Where's the beginning to it all? Why is there existence rather than no existence?" comes down to two possible answers: 1) I don't know, and I don't want to make stuff up; 2) conflating the terms of a paradox into one or more entities: "God is the one who can exist without time and space, and who can create without ever having been created! God is eternal and outside time, but regularly talks to people, instructs them, and otherwise acts within the bounds of time. God is the one whose greater vision makes the starvation of babies, which is clearly a great evil in the world, a Holy and divine goodness." In short: God is the one who makes all possible, even when it's clearly illogical.You are taking a big leap here
It is proven that the universe must had a creator
It is all by Logic and even God cannot defy Logic
You need either to refute the proof or accept it