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Vegetarianism vs Omnivoreism .... discussions btw Kichi and bennyboy
#1
Vegetarianism vs Omnivoreism .... discussions btw Kichi and bennyboy
bennyboy and I have been PMing like mad regarding this topic and whether or not it should go to the "Debate Area" Our solution is that this thread be started so that we can both have the diversity of scope to explore this issue.

Many will love to chip in with their 2c of understanding and this is fine (correct me if I'm wrong bennyboy) but please do not feel that you are slighted if either of us do not respond immediately if at all to your comments.

As I have stated above, we are exploring this issue from differing positions and are liken to "babes in the wood" when it comes down to actual clarity over both positions and facts regarding both positions.

I will stress that emotionalism will be called out for what it is whether mine or bennyboy's and this is not to be seen as an attack, what I am striving for is a discussion sans the emotive rhetoric to achieve a clarity for both positions. Previous comments from the http://atheistforums.org/thread-23157.html "Any Vegetarians/Vegans here? thread are likely to surface here please do not take this as an endorsement but instead grist to the mill of scientific inquiry and discussion. Discussions on this topic will NOT be looking at balancing the four winds or at best will only lightly touch on Ayurvedic / Native/ Indigenous "medicine"

So now that is over and done with........


I will start with a "split" from the above mentioned thread

http://atheistforums.org/thread-23157-page-17.html post #809

Quote:bennyboy Wrote:
(Yesterday 09:17)KichigaiNeko Wrote:
Intrinsic to my position? Just for clarity, just what do you think my position is bennyboy?
Your position is that meat production and consumption is okay or necessary.


Correct so far



(Yesterday 10:56)bennyboy Wrote:
Intrinsic to this position are attitudes about the justification of suffering in others.


How is this "intrinsic" ??
This seems an assumption on your part


(Yesterday 10:56)bennyboy Wrote:
All meat-eaters must necessarily accept that in order to sustain themselves, they must cause suffering and death in others.

Why? This seems another assumption on your part sans any evidence so far for the previous assumptions

(Yesterday 10:56)bennyboy Wrote:
I assume, since you are a willing participant in the meat production/consumption cycle, that you accept whatever evils that process involves

Finally a bit of honesty! And just what ARE the "evils"?

(Yesterday 10:56)bennyboy Wrote:
-- environmentally and health-wise as well as in terms of suffering-- even if you have not specifically stated so.

You don't seem to be making any sense with the above statement, it just sounds like religious dogma regurgitated to sound good and convey guilt


(Yesterday 10:56)bennyboy Wrote:
Since in Australia, meat-production is also a big business, I'd also hazard a guess that you are willing to accept environmental corruption and animal suffering as part of the exchange of goods-- money for housing, electronic goods, etc. At this point, the word "necessity" starts to lose the ring of truth.

This from a person who lives in Korea which imports 95% of it's food and construction materials from other countries?

How's that apartment you are living in?

(Yesterday 10:56)bennyboy Wrote:
Quote:
Now, for what you have implied you are in North America/ Canada? Is this correct? And your country grows wheat? What else does it grow?

As far as I understand, here in Oz we have something like two growing seasons and yes wheat is a yearly crop here, along with many other grain crops (large scale). We are also only 22-23 million in population so most of our produce gets exported.
I live in Korea, but I am Canadian. Canada is similarly situated to Australia, I believe: large countries with low populations and good farmlands, but quite a lot of non-arable land: tundra in Canada, and dry regions in Australia.

You do realise that many of our forest have had to be felled so you can have your kimchi every day?

Would you enjoy some reading material?

http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Asia-...index.html
http://www.biology.ualberta.ca/bsc/engli...r5_ACG.pdf

http://gocanada.about.com/od/canadatrave...canada.htm

http://www.weather-and-climate.com/avera...outh-Korea

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/...limate~143

http://www.murraydarlingwetlands.com.au/...-facts.asp

http://www.murrayriver.com.au/about-the-...ing-basin/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray–Darling_basin

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nati...le1316188/

http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/econo...LTURE.html

http://www.agriculturemorethanever.ca/ca...log/facts/

http://www.agr.gc.ca/eng/about-us/public...1899760841

http://www.croplife.ca/just-the-facts

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topi...nd-fishing

http://countrystudies.us/south-korea/52.htm

http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/agriculture/in...kets/korea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_Australia


http://t.answers.com/answers/#!/entry/wh...89472cce9a

http://australia.gov.au/about-australia/...griculture

Suffice to say the above led to an interesting Sunday afternoon's worth of reading.

Enjoy.

And further the reply

http://atheistforums.org/thread-23157-page-17.html post #811

Quote:KichigaiNeko Wrote:
(16th February 2014 02:56)bennyboy Wrote:
All meat-eaters must necessarily accept that in order to sustain themselves, they must cause suffering and death in others.

Why? This seems another assumption on your part sans any evidence so far for the previous assumptions
I think I don't understand what you're getting at. Are there any meat eaters who do not believe that eating meat involves any suffering? If so, there's a serious reality disconnect there. Please clarify.

Quote:
(16th February 2014 02:56)bennyboy Wrote:
-- environmentally and health-wise as well as in terms of suffering-- even if you have not specifically stated so.

You don't seem to be making any sense with the above statement, it just sounds like religious dogma regurgitated to sound good and convey guilt
I suspect you think my use of the word "evils" had a religious connotationor implication. I just used it to mean "very bad stuff." I don't see what's dogma about any of this.

Quote:
(16th February 2014 02:56)bennyboy Wrote:
Since in Australia, meat-production is also a big business, I'd also hazard a guess that you are willing to accept environmental corruption and animal suffering as part of the exchange of goods-- money for housing, electronic goods, etc. At this point, the word "necessity" starts to lose the ring of truth.
This from a person who lives in Korea which imports 95% of it's food and construction materials from other countries?

How's that apartment you are living in?
Yep, it's true. Korea not only imports much food, shoveling the environmental consequences of consumption onto other countries, it makes the money to do so by running big factories, here or abroad, belching out pollutants.

Quote:
(16th February 2014 02:56)bennyboy Wrote:
I live in Korea, but I am Canadian. Canada is similarly situated to Australia, I believe: large countries with low populations and good farmlands, but quite a lot of non-arable land: tundra in Canada, and dry regions in Australia.
You do realise that many of our forest have had to be felled so you can have your kimchi every day?

Would you enjoy some reading material?



Enjoy.

Bennyboy wrote: lol these are all good sources of information. However, you might want to supplement some of them with a summary and a point. What specifically are you trying to say with these links?

benny boy Wrote:What specifically are you trying to say with these links?

I am not trying to "say" anything but offering the sources of the information that I had read to support my comments. Is this not acceptable?
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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Vegetarianism vs Omnivoreism .... discussions btw Kichi and bennyboy - by KichigaiNeko - February 18, 2014 at 3:23 am



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