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The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument
#21
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument
(May 8, 2015 at 10:45 am)Alex K Wrote: [quote pid='938096' dateline='1431095668']
Not to speak for the OP, but I think the premise is that "things seen in the universe" obey it and that therefore must be things unseen and outside of this category. Seems more like special pleading. But - if the argument were really sound, one might conclude that either nothing can exist or that there have to be other things which violate the premise, while the hitherto known things don't - which is taken as an empirical insight I suppose.

[/quote]

Yes, an even if we look outside the universe, we are still talking about special pleading because there's no reason to do so. We know that mattter cannot be created, yet matter is here. If matter is here then it had to always be here.  Impermanence means only that everything changes not that everything has an ontological beginning, so there's no need to look outside the universe for a cause.

Matter is the god that has always existed. Fermions and bosons. Quarks, leptons, photons and gluons, these are their own causes. Why need we look further?
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.

I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.

Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire

Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by StuW - May 8, 2015 at 8:53 am
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by JuliaL - May 8, 2015 at 10:58 am
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by Alex K - May 8, 2015 at 11:11 am
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by JuliaL - May 8, 2015 at 11:50 am
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by Alex K - May 8, 2015 at 10:45 am
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by Rhondazvous - May 8, 2015 at 12:24 pm
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by Tonus - May 8, 2015 at 10:38 am
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by Alex K - May 8, 2015 at 11:26 am
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by Alex K - May 8, 2015 at 11:54 am
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by JuliaL - May 8, 2015 at 12:26 pm
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by Alex K - May 9, 2015 at 10:28 am
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by Alex K - May 11, 2015 at 11:58 am
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by Longhorn - May 11, 2015 at 12:51 pm
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by Alex K - May 11, 2015 at 12:59 pm
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by Pyrrho - May 11, 2015 at 1:03 pm
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by Alex K - May 11, 2015 at 1:04 pm
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by Pyrrho - May 11, 2015 at 1:28 pm
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by Alex K - May 11, 2015 at 1:35 pm
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by Pyrrho - May 11, 2015 at 2:16 pm
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by Pyrrho - May 11, 2015 at 4:55 pm
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by Tonus - May 11, 2015 at 3:54 pm
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by Alex K - May 12, 2015 at 12:21 pm
RE: The First Cause? Prime Mover Argument - by Pyrrho - May 12, 2015 at 12:37 pm



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