Responding to "Homosexuality is wrong, the same way incest is wrong"
May 22, 2015 at 5:57 pm
(This post was last modified: May 22, 2015 at 6:01 pm by JewishAthiest.)
Hey, I'm new here, and this is my first post. I'm not an English speaker, so if you notice any misspelled words or grammar mistakes, please bare with me.
Before I'll get to my point, some background: I was raised as an orthodox jewish in a religious home. I am a former believer, and in general, I am a very non-spiritual person, and probably always has been. Ironically enough, I lost my faith altogether at once in what can only be described as a very intense "spiritual experience"
. The only one I ever had.
Anyway, I would like to hear your opinions about the subject of incest. In particular, how do you respond the the claim that homosexuality should be frowned upon for the same reasons incest is.
Let me first start with a story:
A couple of days ago, I was on my way to a business meeting with a colleague of mine - religious man who is also a close friend.
We talk a lot, about various issues. Politics and society, soccer, girls, family, etc, and since we don't agree on a lot of issues, we often even get to a point where the debate is really loud. Nevertheless, we stay good friends, and don't let these issues bother us too much.
Although we spend a lot of time together, only on rare occasions do we discuss the elephant in the room - religion and belief in god.
It often feels like we both try to tiptoe our way around it, whenever something related comes up.
Anyhow, while we were driving the long way to the coffee house, I told him that some common acquaintance just came out of the closet.
"The television shows these days"... he cautiously mumble, knowing I wouldn't appreciate it, "what a bad influence they have on people".
"What's the harm in that?" I respond.
"Well, it is not natural, you must agree".
"Oh, are you sure want to talk about what's natural and what's not?"
"No, but you have to agree that this is not normal", he deflects, knowing that I was referring to some of the superstitions he holds.
"I agree in the sense that this is not 'the norm', so what? being left-handed is not 'the norm'. It's not enough to make it morally wrong".
"I'm not saying it's morally wrong, I'm just saying that today's TV shows make us believe this is normal and ok and affects us subconsciously"
"So what?! If it is not morally wrong in your opinion, then why does it bother you that TV shows have this kind of effect on people?"
...
...
It went on and on, while I was trying to explain to him why saying "I'm not saying it's wrong" and "but TV is this and that" is nonsensical and contradictory.
Finally, when we got to our destination, I felt like I need to sum up and state my stance on the issue:
"If it is made in consent, and the two guys are old enough, why wouldn't they have sex? Why is it my or your concern? They are not hurting anyone."
To which he replied:
"Well, you know? How about we allow sex in the family? If it is made in consent, and no one is hurting anyone, why wouldn't we approve it?"
To this I wasn't ready. I never really thought about it.
He sensed that, and a big smile of victory and satisfaction was on his face, while we were entering the coffee house and had to leave that at it.
Later the same day, I tried to think; why is that at some of the secular countries in Europe these days, this is considered bad, and correct me if I'm wrong - a crime even.
I know that incest causes genetic defects, is that the reason it became a social taboo?
Notice that this issue encompass two areas: A political one, and a moral one.
Should we, as a society, forbid incest by law, and if so - why, and most importantly, how is it consonant with the principle - that I'm sure most of you share - that "if two persons love each other, are old enough, and they are not hurting anyone, then why shouldn’t they engage in a sexual relations?"
Here is professor Krauss' respond to the same question (at time 1:09:20):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSwJuOPG4FI&t=69m21s
What are your thoughts and views about the subject?
Before I'll get to my point, some background: I was raised as an orthodox jewish in a religious home. I am a former believer, and in general, I am a very non-spiritual person, and probably always has been. Ironically enough, I lost my faith altogether at once in what can only be described as a very intense "spiritual experience"
. The only one I ever had.Anyway, I would like to hear your opinions about the subject of incest. In particular, how do you respond the the claim that homosexuality should be frowned upon for the same reasons incest is.
Let me first start with a story:
A couple of days ago, I was on my way to a business meeting with a colleague of mine - religious man who is also a close friend.
We talk a lot, about various issues. Politics and society, soccer, girls, family, etc, and since we don't agree on a lot of issues, we often even get to a point where the debate is really loud. Nevertheless, we stay good friends, and don't let these issues bother us too much.
Although we spend a lot of time together, only on rare occasions do we discuss the elephant in the room - religion and belief in god.
It often feels like we both try to tiptoe our way around it, whenever something related comes up.
Anyhow, while we were driving the long way to the coffee house, I told him that some common acquaintance just came out of the closet.
"The television shows these days"... he cautiously mumble, knowing I wouldn't appreciate it, "what a bad influence they have on people".
"What's the harm in that?" I respond.
"Well, it is not natural, you must agree".
"Oh, are you sure want to talk about what's natural and what's not?"
"No, but you have to agree that this is not normal", he deflects, knowing that I was referring to some of the superstitions he holds.
"I agree in the sense that this is not 'the norm', so what? being left-handed is not 'the norm'. It's not enough to make it morally wrong".
"I'm not saying it's morally wrong, I'm just saying that today's TV shows make us believe this is normal and ok and affects us subconsciously"
"So what?! If it is not morally wrong in your opinion, then why does it bother you that TV shows have this kind of effect on people?"
...
...
It went on and on, while I was trying to explain to him why saying "I'm not saying it's wrong" and "but TV is this and that" is nonsensical and contradictory.
Finally, when we got to our destination, I felt like I need to sum up and state my stance on the issue:
"If it is made in consent, and the two guys are old enough, why wouldn't they have sex? Why is it my or your concern? They are not hurting anyone."
To which he replied:
"Well, you know? How about we allow sex in the family? If it is made in consent, and no one is hurting anyone, why wouldn't we approve it?"
To this I wasn't ready. I never really thought about it.
He sensed that, and a big smile of victory and satisfaction was on his face, while we were entering the coffee house and had to leave that at it.
Later the same day, I tried to think; why is that at some of the secular countries in Europe these days, this is considered bad, and correct me if I'm wrong - a crime even.
I know that incest causes genetic defects, is that the reason it became a social taboo?
Notice that this issue encompass two areas: A political one, and a moral one.
Should we, as a society, forbid incest by law, and if so - why, and most importantly, how is it consonant with the principle - that I'm sure most of you share - that "if two persons love each other, are old enough, and they are not hurting anyone, then why shouldn’t they engage in a sexual relations?"
Here is professor Krauss' respond to the same question (at time 1:09:20):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSwJuOPG4FI&t=69m21s
What are your thoughts and views about the subject?
