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Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism
#21
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism
(January 1, 2017 at 8:12 pm)Jehanne Wrote:
(January 1, 2017 at 7:14 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: If that one action was done with a fully deliberate intent on turning away from God with no remorse for doing so, then I don't see why it matters if it happens once or a million times. "Hell" is the state of being of a person who separated themselves from God (or from goodness and love) by their own accord. If a person does not want to be with God, if that person rejects goodness and love, then they don't have to be with God if they don't want to be. That is Hell. It's the ultimate free will.

Also, the way you are talking about God, you don't sound like someone who genuinely doesn't believe he exists. You sound like someone who got so caught up in ocd/scruples, that you feel your only escape is to shut the whole thing off. Sorry if I'm wrong, and correct me if I am. But that's just what it is coming off as to me. It seems very emotional.

CT, This is not what the Catholic Church has taught, speaking, of course, from a strictly historical perspective:

Quote:693 [ De novissimis] * It has likewise defined, that, if those truly penitent have departed in the love of God, before they have made satisfaction by the worthy fruits of penance for sins of commission and omission, the souls of these are cleansed after death by purgatorial punishments; and so that they may be released from punishments of this kind, the suffrages of the living faithful are of advantage to them, namely, the sacrifices of Masses, prayers, and almsgiving, and other works of piety, which are customarily performed by the faithful for other faithful according to the institutions of the Church. And that the souls of those, who after the reception of baptism have incurred no stain of sin at all, and also those, who after the contraction of the stain of sin whether in their bodies, or when released from the same bodies, as we have said before, are purged, are immediately received into heaven, and see clearly the one and triune God Himself just as He is, yet according to the diversity of merits, one more perfectly than another. Moreover, the souls of those who depart in actual mortal sin or in original sin only, descend immediately into hell but to undergo punishments of different kinds [see n.464].

This is why the Church taught that infants who perish without sacramental Baptism go to the Limbo of the Children, which is, basically, the highest level of Hell.  Read Dante's Inferno for more details.

You are, of course, free to make things up as you go along; religion is very good at doing that!

Jeanne, you always do this. You always claim I'm saying something false about the church, and then you back it up by linking to super old documents that I don't even recognize. If you want to know what the church teaches about something, you have to look at the catechism. That is very basic lol.

The catechism states that we have every reason to hope that all babies are indeed with God in heaven. While we cannot say for sure who is in heaven (with the exception of canonized saints), it is very much the general consensus among catholics that unbaptized babies are indeed in heaven.

(January 1, 2017 at 8:21 pm)chimp3 Wrote:
(January 1, 2017 at 8:19 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Depends on what you mean by that.

What I believe is that God is goodness and love. A person who rejects goodness and love is ultimately rejecting God and God'a ways. But a person who simply doesn't believe God is real, isn't "rejecting" God if such person still strives to embrace goodness and love and strives to live accordingly.

A true rejection of God is fully knowing and understanding that God is goodness/love, and then choosing to turn away from all that and to embrace hatred and greed instead.

If I reject god and do not believe he is goodness and love is that a true rejection?

No. As I said, true rejection is knowing exactly what He is (goodness and love) and choosing to reject it all anyway. This is where full knowledge and consent of the will would apply here.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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Messages In This Thread
Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Redoubtable - January 1, 2017 at 3:33 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by vorlon13 - January 1, 2017 at 3:54 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Catholic_Lady - January 1, 2017 at 5:24 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Redoubtable - January 1, 2017 at 5:36 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Jehanne - January 1, 2017 at 7:05 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Minimalist - January 1, 2017 at 5:25 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Catholic_Lady - January 1, 2017 at 5:57 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Redoubtable - January 1, 2017 at 6:11 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Catholic_Lady - January 1, 2017 at 6:22 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Redoubtable - January 1, 2017 at 6:57 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Catholic_Lady - January 1, 2017 at 7:14 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by chimp3 - January 1, 2017 at 8:02 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Catholic_Lady - January 1, 2017 at 8:19 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by chimp3 - January 1, 2017 at 8:21 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Astonished - January 1, 2017 at 8:23 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Jehanne - January 1, 2017 at 8:12 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Catholic_Lady - January 1, 2017 at 8:24 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by chimp3 - January 1, 2017 at 8:30 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Catholic_Lady - January 1, 2017 at 8:39 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by chimp3 - January 1, 2017 at 8:41 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Catholic_Lady - January 1, 2017 at 8:51 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by chimp3 - January 1, 2017 at 8:52 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Catholic_Lady - January 1, 2017 at 9:20 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Jehanne - January 1, 2017 at 9:56 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Redoubtable - January 1, 2017 at 9:34 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Jehanne - January 1, 2017 at 10:12 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Seraphina - January 1, 2017 at 6:54 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Redoubtable - January 1, 2017 at 7:05 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Jehanne - January 1, 2017 at 7:00 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Whateverist - January 1, 2017 at 7:00 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Astonished - January 1, 2017 at 9:57 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Astonished - January 1, 2017 at 10:18 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Jehanne - January 1, 2017 at 10:25 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Astonished - January 1, 2017 at 10:29 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Aoi Magi - January 1, 2017 at 11:32 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Astonished - January 1, 2017 at 11:38 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Redoubtable - January 1, 2017 at 11:52 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Astonished - January 2, 2017 at 12:39 am
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Jehanne - January 2, 2017 at 10:24 am
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Redoubtable - January 2, 2017 at 10:31 am
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Jehanne - January 2, 2017 at 11:02 am

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