Who was "he" talking to?

[Godscreated]

What makes you think an omniscient being who is also omnipresent would create the universe any other way than the way He saw to be the only right way.?

The universe he created has seen mankind suffer for thousands of years and visit pain upon one another and many angels in heaven turn wicked and follow the devil.

No, this is the universe that man corrupted through the sin of disobedience. Before man's fall God called His creation, "very good."

 If this outcome is what God thought of as perfect, I would consider his standards to be very low.  If it is not his idea of perfection but it is what he wanted, then I would question his motivations.  A God who would create a universe that he knew would be filled with so much suffering must like to see his creation suffer.  That's a very scary God.

Since neither of the above are true then God's not scary nor did He ever want to see the suffering man brought into the creation. Because of love God could not keep free will out of His creation. We had to have a choice, if not the creation would have been sterile, bland and boring, wouldn't you think so.

---

We are born with a sense of right and wrong which isn't developed except through teaching and experience.

---

We have the ability to empathize and cooperate, but I don't think that's the same thing.  If we were born with an innate sense of right and wrong, then teaching a child would only require that we tell them "this is right, this is wrong."  But parents who teach in this manner often have problems, while those who explain why an action is right or wrong --often by reversing a situation so they see it from the other person's point-of-view-- are going to have more success in raising children who become good citizens.

Having a sense of right and wrong doesn't by necessity mean a child would only have to be told and not taught. I fully agree with the teaching you described and we are in agreement with the Bible. The OT tells parents that they should teach their children and that the mother is to make that a matter of great importance with her children.

---

God is bound by who He is and God says He is not a liar, so He can't lie. Lying is an impossibility for God.

---

That one was easy, though.  God doesn't have to lie since he's a being of unparalleled power.  But it's not impossible for him to do so.  If God lied we would not be able to do anything to him.  God is bound by who he is, but he is boundless, so that's not saying anything.  God cannot be limited, even by himself.  That is the essence of his nature.  As you yourself said:

I've said God has providence over His creation, I have never said God is not limited by who He is. If God lied and we knew it we certainly couldn't punish Him but, we could reject Him as being untrustworthy. He then wouldn't have the one thing He created us for, to love Him. God doesn't need our love He had already existed forever without it. When God decided to create man He wanted a being He could have a mutual loving relationship with and give us everything we could need and more, He certainly wasn't looking for a one sided affair, if He was He sure wouldn't have gone through all the trouble with us that He has.

---

God is not bound by behavioral and moral laws, He is the law by His very nature, God can't go against himself,

---

This is my point.  There is no action that God could take that would go against himself.  He isn't the law, he is the law giver.  He is above any law because no law can be enforced against him.

I can't see that in anyway. First God is called the law giver because He set down a moral code for us that shows us who He is, the law gives us understanding of God. God can't be above the law, not because we can or can't punish Him, it's because He wouldn't be the trustworthy God that He tells us He is. Like I said above if man doesn't find Him trustworthy then He would lose the very thing He created us for, love. The law is based on God's nature pure and simple.

---

If you understood where I'm coming from then why the above statement?

---

As I said above, the apologist has to come up with an explanation for why God does some of the cruel and brutal things he does in the Bible.  But in putting him above human standards of good or evil, you end up with a God who can do the worst possible things and still be a perfect and good being.  You are trusting that he won't, but there is no basis for that expectation.

God is the creator and He has providence over His creation, in essence He owns all of it lock stock and barrel. When God takes a life it's not murder the life belonged to Him to start with and when He does it is only the physical body that dies not the living spirit that is who we are, the body is only there to house the spirit. Like Paul said of the Christian, "to be absent from the body is to be in the presence of God." God has always existed and He was not created, God created life and thus has a greater understanding of what life really is. We on the other hand cannot even define what life is. We cannot create it, recreate it nor can we control it all life on this planet dies and there's not a thing we can do to stop it, but God can. He's created it, destroyed it, resurrected it only to die again and has resurrected it for eternal life. God brought life into being because He designed it in His mind and spoke it into existence. There was no such thing as life before God created it, that is besides the life He is whatever that might be.
I think that you as most nonbelievers do is confuse what God does with what man does to each other. Often there are passages quoted that the person quoting them says God does which is not necessarily true. God often tells what is going to happen in the future to the Jewish people mostly and that He's not going to stop it, He allows it as punishment for His judgment. I've seen a verse in Psalm quoted a few times every year about babies dying a terrible death and that God did it. Nothing could be farther from the truth, the passage is a man cursing another nation for what they had done to Israel. The man was wishing that those things would happen to the enemies children because that is what they had done to the Israelites. It is this kind of misuse of the scriptures that is inexcusable especially for those here who claim to be so smart, yet they cannot understand the simplest writings in the Bible.

I may have to slow down on our postings because I need to get back to my shop and work on some furniture however I will respond to your post as soon as I can. We certainly have managed to stretch this conversation out a bit and that's alright with me it's enjoyable.

GC