Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 16, 2020, 10:25 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The First Century Void
#1
The First Century Void
One of Richard Carrier's most compelling arguments, the utter failure of any first century Greco-Roman writer to mention anything about xtianity.


Quote:We know emperors Vespasian and Titus published commentaries on
their government service, including their prosecution of the Jewish War
(these being among the sources, again, that Josephus used). So if Christians
ever significantly came up in their invasion and conquest of Judea,
or in their government of Rome, they would have mentioned it, too. We
know Seneca the Elder wrote a History of Rome that covered events from
the first century BCE to around 40 CE. Then Seneca the Younger wrote a
treatise On Superstition sometime between 40 and 62 CE that lambasted
every known cult at Rome, even the most trivial or obscure-including
the Jews-but never mentioned Christians, an omission Augustine later
struggled to explain.

Italics added to show that later xtians....unlike modern xtian apologists... were bothered by the fact.  We can be grateful to Augustine for mentioning this failure of Seneca to mention xtians as a first century cult as no one bothered to preserve the text.... which is another point Carrier gets into later.  In similar manner we can be grateful to Origen for preserving the words the Celsus in his attempted rebuttal and in much the same manner as Minucius Felix preserved some of the words of Fronto who denounced xtians in the 180's and Cyril of Alexandria who was royally pissed at the writings of Emperor Julian the Apostate.

If Seneca lambasted every known cult why did he miss the xtians?  The obvious answer is that they had no presence in first century Rome.... as opposed to the bullshit story they concocted later and which so confused poor Augustine!
Reply



Messages In This Thread
The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 10, 2017 at 6:22 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 11, 2017 at 5:36 am
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 11, 2017 at 10:39 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Gawdzilla Sama - June 11, 2017 at 6:19 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 11, 2017 at 1:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 11, 2017 at 4:45 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 11, 2017 at 11:40 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Gawdzilla Sama - June 11, 2017 at 7:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 13, 2017 at 7:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 13, 2017 at 7:35 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by ignoramus - June 14, 2017 at 4:38 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 13, 2017 at 7:41 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 14, 2017 at 10:22 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - June 16, 2017 at 5:09 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 16, 2017 at 9:41 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 17, 2017 at 12:24 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 17, 2017 at 3:08 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 17, 2017 at 10:51 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 17, 2017 at 1:21 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 11:24 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 18, 2017 at 2:44 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Secular Elf - June 17, 2017 at 12:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 20, 2017 at 6:04 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Secular Elf - June 20, 2017 at 4:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 20, 2017 at 10:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 22, 2017 at 6:24 am
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 22, 2017 at 11:19 am
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 1:33 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 17, 2017 at 1:56 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 2:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 17, 2017 at 2:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 2:05 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 20, 2017 at 11:04 am
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 2:39 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 20, 2017 at 11:12 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 20, 2017 at 5:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 20, 2017 at 10:34 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 22, 2017 at 3:23 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 20, 2017 at 10:36 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 20, 2017 at 10:41 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 22, 2017 at 12:21 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Secular Elf - June 27, 2017 at 3:54 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 27, 2017 at 11:28 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 28, 2017 at 3:42 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - June 28, 2017 at 8:18 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 28, 2017 at 11:28 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 22, 2017 at 9:03 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 22, 2017 at 9:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 22, 2017 at 11:07 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 22, 2017 at 11:45 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 23, 2017 at 8:15 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 6:00 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 24, 2017 at 6:50 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 24, 2017 at 7:17 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 7:53 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 24, 2017 at 9:52 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 23, 2017 at 12:53 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 24, 2017 at 3:48 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 24, 2017 at 5:53 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 24, 2017 at 6:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Nomad - June 24, 2017 at 7:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 6:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 7:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 10:08 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 24, 2017 at 10:10 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 10:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 10:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 26, 2017 at 6:57 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 26, 2017 at 12:58 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 26, 2017 at 3:32 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - June 26, 2017 at 7:19 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 26, 2017 at 10:18 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 26, 2017 at 10:47 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 26, 2017 at 11:52 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 27, 2017 at 8:31 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 27, 2017 at 10:02 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 27, 2017 at 11:18 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Wyrd of Gawd - July 3, 2017 at 4:16 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 11:51 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - July 3, 2017 at 5:55 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Wyrd of Gawd - July 3, 2017 at 10:18 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - June 26, 2017 at 1:13 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 26, 2017 at 3:30 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - June 27, 2017 at 12:34 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 1:05 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 27, 2017 at 2:10 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 3:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Secular Elf - June 27, 2017 at 4:24 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 4:03 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 5:36 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 11:28 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - June 27, 2017 at 11:44 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 27, 2017 at 11:50 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - June 27, 2017 at 11:59 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 28, 2017 at 9:52 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - June 28, 2017 at 2:26 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - June 28, 2017 at 2:34 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - June 28, 2017 at 3:07 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - June 28, 2017 at 3:22 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 28, 2017 at 3:42 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 2, 2017 at 12:27 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 11:17 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 2, 2017 at 6:06 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 3, 2017 at 2:14 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 3, 2017 at 3:38 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 5:45 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 3, 2017 at 6:16 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 6:54 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 3, 2017 at 7:06 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 10:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 7:57 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 10:47 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 11:13 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 11:34 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 11:43 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 11:50 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 11:52 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 4, 2017 at 12:07 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Wyrd of Gawd - July 4, 2017 at 2:12 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - July 4, 2017 at 4:35 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 7:37 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 4, 2017 at 6:13 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 4, 2017 at 6:52 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 4, 2017 at 1:31 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 4, 2017 at 4:22 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 4, 2017 at 4:54 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 7:09 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 4, 2017 at 7:11 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 1:53 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 3:39 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by JackRussell - July 4, 2017 at 4:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 4:37 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 6, 2017 at 8:15 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 6, 2017 at 8:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 6, 2017 at 10:00 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 6, 2017 at 10:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 6, 2017 at 11:21 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 7, 2017 at 7:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 7, 2017 at 9:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 7, 2017 at 7:59 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 7, 2017 at 8:56 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 7, 2017 at 10:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 7, 2017 at 11:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 7, 2017 at 10:13 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 7, 2017 at 11:19 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 8, 2017 at 1:48 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 8, 2017 at 12:48 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 8, 2017 at 2:08 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - July 8, 2017 at 4:10 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 8, 2017 at 9:24 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - July 9, 2017 at 4:56 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 9, 2017 at 6:41 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 9, 2017 at 9:39 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Nomad - July 9, 2017 at 1:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - July 10, 2017 at 11:03 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 10, 2017 at 12:25 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Nomad - July 10, 2017 at 3:08 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 10, 2017 at 11:16 am
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - July 8, 2017 at 9:07 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 10, 2017 at 11:15 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - July 10, 2017 at 11:50 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 10, 2017 at 12:15 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 10, 2017 at 12:57 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - July 10, 2017 at 12:00 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 10, 2017 at 11:53 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 10, 2017 at 12:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 10, 2017 at 12:16 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 10, 2017 at 12:55 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - July 10, 2017 at 6:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 10, 2017 at 7:42 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 12, 2017 at 8:03 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 13, 2017 at 9:36 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 13, 2017 at 9:40 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 20, 2017 at 1:20 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 12:30 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 25, 2017 at 1:45 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 5:49 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 7:43 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 25, 2017 at 11:14 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 3:33 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 4:16 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 25, 2017 at 4:21 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Nomad - July 25, 2017 at 4:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 4:39 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 4:56 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 5:07 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 5:35 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 25, 2017 at 6:30 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 6:54 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 7:18 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 7:49 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 26, 2017 at 11:08 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 26, 2017 at 11:17 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 26, 2017 at 11:14 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - August 3, 2017 at 9:53 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 7, 2017 at 8:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - August 7, 2017 at 11:01 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - August 8, 2017 at 8:32 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 8, 2017 at 9:26 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - August 8, 2017 at 11:19 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - August 8, 2017 at 11:16 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - August 8, 2017 at 12:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - August 8, 2017 at 12:20 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 9, 2017 at 7:22 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - August 10, 2017 at 3:06 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 10, 2017 at 9:49 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - August 9, 2017 at 1:57 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 9, 2017 at 3:25 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - August 12, 2017 at 11:06 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - August 12, 2017 at 1:48 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - August 12, 2017 at 2:46 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - August 12, 2017 at 3:16 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - August 12, 2017 at 4:23 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 12, 2017 at 5:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 6, 2017 at 2:19 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - September 6, 2017 at 9:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 6, 2017 at 10:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 7, 2017 at 4:53 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - September 6, 2017 at 10:22 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 6, 2017 at 10:33 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 7, 2017 at 1:45 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - September 7, 2017 at 2:12 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 7, 2017 at 2:28 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - September 7, 2017 at 2:30 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 7, 2017 at 2:51 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - September 7, 2017 at 7:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 7, 2017 at 8:37 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - September 7, 2017 at 9:15 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 8, 2017 at 4:14 am
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - September 8, 2017 at 9:08 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 8, 2017 at 9:51 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Crossless2.0 - September 8, 2017 at 2:06 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 9, 2017 at 5:59 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  9/11 a "day of destiny" for Germany in the 20th century Deesse23 0 183 November 9, 2018 at 4:57 am
Last Post: Deesse23
  What was the first thread or the first member on Atheistforums.org? Omnicidal 15 1724 January 9, 2018 at 4:16 pm
Last Post: LastPoet
  Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult Minimalist 70 5617 November 2, 2017 at 3:52 pm
Last Post: Amarok
  The Millennium/21st Century Newtonscat 7 2697 January 20, 2015 at 10:17 am
Last Post: Newtonscat



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)