Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: April 24, 2024, 1:19 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Free Will Debate
#81
RE: Free Will Debate
(November 27, 2021 at 1:36 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:
(November 27, 2021 at 1:12 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I have no idea, it's a good question.  Nevertheless, instrumental to the concept of a free will..as opposed to a local will, or just a will - fullstop.....is the idea that we are meaningfully outside of the clockwork universe.  That, even if you were the same, and all things were the same, the issue of choosing a or b fundamentally hinges on a you free of that empowered to and capable of going down either causal path.

The conflict between the apparent ultimate impossibility of the existence of any will on the one hand, and the apparent benefit of assigning responsibility based on pretension of the existence of a free will on the other, require much more sophisticated assessment than it seems to generally be given.

(November 27, 2021 at 12:28 pm)polymath257 Wrote: Why would I make a different decision if *I* am exactly the same and *everything* else is also exactly the same?

The question is not why would you, but could you.

If I *could*, but never *do*, is it really possible?

I'm not even sure how to make sense of the phrase 'I could do different than I actually did'. If I run the scenario several times, then I am different each time, so I don't expect to make the same decision. But a singular event, I don't know what it even means to say it 'could' be different.

In what way is it 'possible'?

And if I am not involved through my beliefs, desires, etc, in what way is it *my* choice?

(November 27, 2021 at 1:12 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:
(November 27, 2021 at 12:28 pm)polymath257 Wrote: Why would I make a different decision if *I* am exactly the same and *everything* else is also exactly the same?

I have no idea, it's a good question.  Nevertheless, instrumental to the concept of a free will..as opposed to a local will, or just a will - fullstop.....is the idea that we are meaningfully outside of the clockwork universe.  That, even if you were the same, and all things were the same, the issue of choosing a or b fundamentally hinges on a you free of that empowered to and capable of going down either causal path.

So it really is an example of an uncaused cause?
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Free Will Debate - by Alan V - November 23, 2021 at 2:32 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 23, 2021 at 3:04 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Alan V - November 23, 2021 at 3:48 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 23, 2021 at 4:11 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Alan V - November 23, 2021 at 5:07 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 23, 2021 at 5:20 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 23, 2021 at 3:07 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 23, 2021 at 3:24 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Jehanne - November 23, 2021 at 4:21 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Angrboda - November 23, 2021 at 9:00 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Oldandeasilyconfused - November 24, 2021 at 1:27 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by Ranjr - November 24, 2021 at 2:29 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by brewer - November 24, 2021 at 7:26 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by Jehanne - November 24, 2021 at 8:16 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by brewer - November 24, 2021 at 9:53 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by Anomalocaris - November 24, 2021 at 11:26 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by slartibartfast - November 25, 2021 at 2:42 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by Jehanne - November 25, 2021 at 1:01 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 23, 2021 at 4:24 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Alan V - November 23, 2021 at 8:50 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Oldandeasilyconfused - November 23, 2021 at 4:35 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Foxaèr - November 23, 2021 at 8:54 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 23, 2021 at 8:56 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 23, 2021 at 9:32 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by no one - November 24, 2021 at 2:35 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 24, 2021 at 4:22 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by Anomalocaris - November 24, 2021 at 2:18 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 24, 2021 at 3:02 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 24, 2021 at 7:32 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 24, 2021 at 11:48 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by Jehanne - November 24, 2021 at 1:07 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 24, 2021 at 1:40 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Jehanne - November 24, 2021 at 8:51 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Duty - November 24, 2021 at 7:45 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 24, 2021 at 7:48 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by Neo-Scholastic - November 24, 2021 at 10:03 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 24, 2021 at 3:24 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Anomalocaris - November 24, 2021 at 3:45 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 24, 2021 at 3:49 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 24, 2021 at 3:58 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 24, 2021 at 4:22 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 24, 2021 at 4:26 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by polymath257 - November 24, 2021 at 8:37 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Anomalocaris - November 25, 2021 at 9:31 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 24, 2021 at 9:18 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Jehanne - November 24, 2021 at 9:22 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by slartibartfast - November 25, 2021 at 2:54 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Jehanne - November 25, 2021 at 3:30 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 25, 2021 at 4:33 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by HappySkeptic - November 26, 2021 at 5:41 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 26, 2021 at 5:47 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by polymath257 - November 26, 2021 at 9:36 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Anomalocaris - November 27, 2021 at 4:37 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 27, 2021 at 5:24 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by polymath257 - November 27, 2021 at 10:13 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by Anomalocaris - November 27, 2021 at 11:18 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by polymath257 - November 27, 2021 at 11:27 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by Anomalocaris - November 27, 2021 at 12:06 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by polymath257 - November 27, 2021 at 12:24 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Anomalocaris - November 27, 2021 at 1:09 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Jehanne - November 26, 2021 at 7:56 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 26, 2021 at 10:34 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by polymath257 - November 27, 2021 at 10:59 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 27, 2021 at 11:10 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by polymath257 - November 27, 2021 at 11:18 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 27, 2021 at 11:44 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by polymath257 - November 27, 2021 at 11:58 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by Jehanne - November 27, 2021 at 8:40 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 27, 2021 at 10:38 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by polymath257 - November 27, 2021 at 10:51 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 27, 2021 at 10:54 am
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 27, 2021 at 12:01 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by polymath257 - November 27, 2021 at 12:01 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Anomalocaris - November 27, 2021 at 12:15 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 27, 2021 at 12:07 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 27, 2021 at 12:23 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 27, 2021 at 12:25 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by polymath257 - November 27, 2021 at 12:28 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 27, 2021 at 1:12 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Anomalocaris - November 27, 2021 at 1:36 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by polymath257 - November 27, 2021 at 4:58 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by Anomalocaris - November 27, 2021 at 5:50 pm
RE: Free Will Debate - by The Grand Nudger - November 27, 2021 at 7:08 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Debate Invitation John 6IX Breezy 3 673 September 1, 2019 at 2:05 pm
Last Post: John 6IX Breezy
Thumbs Up VOTE HERE: Final four questions for the Christian Debate vulcanlogician 43 4443 May 18, 2018 at 10:23 am
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  1st Call for Christian Only Debate: Our Role on AF Neo-Scholastic 132 16907 May 4, 2018 at 12:11 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  The Definitive Post On The Free Will v. Determinism Debate BrianSoddingBoru4 17 3210 September 3, 2016 at 11:20 pm
Last Post: Arkilogue
  Debate Challenge TruthisGod 127 19547 November 20, 2015 at 2:13 am
Last Post: Neo-Scholastic
  Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? Anima 355 79048 July 8, 2015 at 4:43 pm
Last Post: Anima
  Moral realism vs moral anti-realism debate is a moot point Pizza 1 1041 March 7, 2015 at 8:13 pm
Last Post: CapnAwesome
  Discussion on debate between Esquilax and His_Majesty. Esquilax 169 30670 November 16, 2014 at 2:43 am
Last Post: Minimalist
  Can you help me debate better? Doggey75 20 3758 April 2, 2014 at 8:37 pm
Last Post: psychoslice
  Philosophical help with a Christian debate paulhe 25 7597 September 22, 2013 at 9:08 pm
Last Post: Faith No More



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)