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A "meta-argument" against all future arguments for God's existence ?
RE: A "meta-argument" against all future arguments for God's existence ?
(March 25, 2022 at 8:21 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: That's straight up propaganda.  It's the US's position that a strong, stable, open, and free russia is in our interest.  You can conceive of this cynically if you like, ala we want that as a counterweight to china, but there it is.

No one was attacking russia, no one wanted to get rid of russia.  No one was going to launch nukes at russia.  They're not responding to an existential threat nor are they trying to redress historic grievance.  It's a land grab.  Period.

I think the USA’s view is that every country should be like them, have open markets, be democratic, be free and so on. Most of all, the USA wants leaders in other countries to be on their side.
However, there are a lot of countries where the leaders see that as a threat to them and therefore, the USA is their enemy.

So, when Russia setup nuclear missiles in Cuba, the USA did not like it.
It’s the same with the current situation. Russia does not like it when the USA is setting up shop near their borders.
When Russia sent a sub to the North pole and planted a flag under the ocean, Canada did not like it and I imagine the USA did not like it.
Russia claims that the upper parts of Canada, where you have some random small islands does not belong to Canada and has sent submarines and is interested in petrol. Again, this is something that Canada doesn’t want. I don’t know the details but I think Canada has stationed a small group of people on some of those islands as evidence that it is Canadian territory.

Look at the case of Iraq. The USA decided to invade Iraq, destroy its army and Sadam Hussein in order to establish freedom. Do you think that is how Russia and China and North Korea views it?
For sure, they discuss what the USA is up to. The USA calls its NATO partners to go to Iraq, destroy it, take the petrol. That’s probably how they view it.
The USA repeated the same kind of thing in Lybia, in Central America, I think in Nicaragua and such.

Each views their way as the right way.

(March 25, 2022 at 9:05 am)Nomad Wrote:
(March 23, 2022 at 10:05 pm)Ferrocyanide Wrote: These are man made laws and they are made by people who make laws that tend to benefit themselves or causes as little trouble to themselves as possible or they are designed to not upset their allies.
Such laws do not negatively impact the countries that establish those laws. It only negatively impacts foreign countries.

So the question remains. Why do the borders as setup by Soviet Russia get respected by the UN?


What’s wrong with attacking the Ottoman Empire?
It’s been well established that turks are invaders in Asia Minor. There were already well established nations on those lands and the turks invaded, killed off people and took over.

According to local rules, I am not allowed to kill my neighbor and take his house and other belongings. Why is it that on the international level, this is acceptable?


Alright. What is your version of the truth?

The information I posted comes from this
Why is Ukraine the West's Fault? Featuring John Mearsheimer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4
By The University of Chicago
Length = 1:14:15

The truth, not my version but the objective verified facts, is that twice in 2014 Russia invaded sovereign Ukrainian territory, the Crimea and the Donbas, in contravention of international law and the Minsk accords signed by Russia. Since then Russia has been fighting an agressive and undeclared war against Ukraine committing many war crimes on a continuous basis.  And it wasn't started by anti-Russia actions in Ukraine but because the democratic revolution in the county put the fear on Putain that he'd be toppled by his own people (remember, he did the exact same thing six years earlier in Georgia), and that he was losing control over another country he considered at best a vassal state.

Oh, and while the US was happy to accept eastern European countries into NATO en masse it was those countries themselves who were pushing expansion.
Believe the pro-Russia neo-nazi bullshit if you want, but don't ever intimate it comes within the same universe as the truth.

Russia is protecting russian people who are in Ukraine. If they don’t do it, who will?
Signing papers is great but the most important thing is to have a powerful army and to have enough material and energy resources to have long wars.
All wars are a matter of resources.

Europe is trying to put pressure on Russia with sanctions. That’s great but where are they getting their natural gas and other needs now? I hear that Japan sent a large tanker with liquid natural gas.
Germany refused to refuse Russia gas. India is buying the gas for cheap.

I wasn’t following this stuff too closely so I took a look at what is available from 2014.
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity

Quote:Successive Ukrainian governments in the 2000s sought a closer relationship with the European Union (EU).[43][44] The government of president Viktor Yanukovych had been negotiating an association agreement with the European Union since 2012.[45] Such comprehensive trade agreement with the EU would have impacted Ukraine's trade agreements with Russia, the latter being Ukraine's biggest trade partner at the time.[46] Yanukovych believed that the complications could be addressed, and he said that he intended to enter the agreement,[47] but continued to postpone.[48] This was interpreted as an attempt to back out of signing this agreement, and led to a wave of protests which came to be known as the "Euromaidan" movement.[49]
Pro-European Union Euromaidan protesters in Kyiv, December 2013.

Protests originally erupted in November 2013 after Yanukovych refused to sign the association agreement with the EU at a meeting of the Eastern Partnership in Vilnius, Lithuania, choosing closer ties with Russia instead. Prime Minister Mykola Azarov had asked for €20 billion (US$27 billion) in loans and aid.[50] The EU was willing to offer €610 million ($838 million) in loans,[51] but Russia was willing to offer $15 billion,[51] as well as cheaper gas prices.[51] In addition, the EU demanded major changes to Ukraine's regulations and laws, but Russia did not.[50] Russia also applied economic pressure on Ukraine and launched a propaganda campaign against the EU deal.[52]

Yanukovych was widely disliked in Ukraine's west but had some support in the east, where his native Russian is much more spoken, and in the south. The rallies were initially peaceful but became violent in January 2014 after parliament, dominated by Yanukovych's supporters, passed laws intended to repress the protests. The European Union and the United States urged Yanukovych to negotiate a peaceful end to the conflict and said they would impose sanctions on government officials if they were found responsible for violence.[53]

In the lead-up to the February revolution an amnesty agreement was made with protesters wherein they would be spared criminal charges in exchange for leaving occupied buildings.[54] The demonstrators vacated all occupied Regional State Administration buildings, and activists in Kyiv left the Hrushevskoho Street standoff; Kyiv's City Hall was also released back to government control on 16 February.[54] All those previously jailed for taking part in protests were scheduled to be released after 17 February.[54]

On 14 February, Yanukovych had said: "I want to say that I was incited, and I'm incited to use various methods and ways how to settle the situation, but I want to say I don't want to be at war. I don't want any decisions made using such a radical way."[55] He called on all politicians to refrain from radicalism and to understand that "there is a line that shouldn't be crossed, and this line is law".[55]

Quote:Oh, and while the US was happy to accept eastern European countries into NATO en masse it was those countries themselves who were pushing expansion.
Believe the pro-Russia neo-nazi bullshit if you want, but don't ever intimate it comes within the same universe as the truth.


Probably a lot of the people of those countries dislike the way things were during communist times so they want to distance themselves from Russia.
Also, who knows what is being talked about behind closed doors. Do these countries really need NATO? Are they seeking protection? Is the USA offering protection?

What is happening in Ukraine right now is a perfect moment to show how the USA can protect anyone.
What is stopping the USA? A piece of paper was not signed?
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Messages In This Thread
RE: A "meta-argument" against all future arguments for God's existence ? - by Ferrocyanide - March 26, 2022 at 11:14 pm

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