Hello atheistforum

[brotherlylove]

As far as I'm concerned, if you believe in god and Jesus, if you believe we are all unworthy sinners who will burn in hell for being sinners and not repenting, if you go to church to worship, and especially if you call yourself a christian, you are a christian. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it's a duck regardless of whether it's a Mallard, an Aylesbury or Peking duck!

As to the part I bolded, that's a little arrogant of you to say, don't you think?

No, I don't think it is arrogant because there is a lot of apostacy in the church. It is something you have to be on your guard about. The bible constantly warns about wolves in sheeps clothing, and that is for a reason; there are many people who masquarade as Christians on sunday and live like the world does on every other day. Many people will wear the mask but inside they don't know God or love Him.

You see ducks, I see an aviary.

Just because you 'feel' it doesn't make it so. I'm telling you right now, he hasn't given sufficient evidence of his existence. If he had, we wouldn't be here now having this conversation.

But you did have sufficient evidence to believe it, since you became a Christian..the trouble came after your conversion, right?

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.

I don't see any mention of sin in these verses......

These were the first words of His ministry:

Mark 1:15

And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

He clarifies it here:

John 8:24

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Is your god really so insecure that belief in him is vital?

It's vital because of sin; not vital for Him, vital for you.

And there it is, the arrogance I've come to expect from christians. I don't understand because I don't believe? So what about when I did believe? It made no sense then either but I skipped over that because I wanted to believe.

It's not arrogant to say that no one can understand the bible without the Holy Spirit if it is factual. The worst you could accuse me of is being mistaken.

Didn't you talk with anyone? Go to church and talk to the pastor? Bible study?

I'm assuming you mean my conversion to belief? I was introduced to religion fairly late in life, and I prayed to be shown the truth. I felt the holy spirit too! Funny thing though, after I'd converted, I never felt it again. And I tried, believe me! Before you start in on the whole "You didn't do it the right way then" let me tell you, if believing wholeheartedly and asking sincerely isn't enough for god, if he would turn around and say "Well yes, you believed, and yes, you confessed to being a sinner and truly repented of those sins, and yes, you did pray to me with a humble heart and open mind, but you didn't use exactly the right words.." then quite frankly, screw him!

Well, this may be part of your trouble because faith is not based on feelings. I didn't feel anything on the day I gave my life to Jesus. It was only after I was baptized that I received the Holy Spirit. Though I did not feel anything initially, I continued to study and talk with other Christians and pray to God and He rewarded that. In your case, God was merciful and gave you some initial evidence, but it sounds like you fell away because you expected to have it all the time?

So, it isn't about using the right words, it is about a firm commitment and a relationship. How long did you last as a Christian?

If you really don't understand what's so offensive about it (not just you telling us that, but that you believe in a god who thinks that way) then I don't think I can explain it to you. I have no interest in worshipping such a sadistic god who would punish us for being how he made us.

I believe what Jesus Christ said, and if I mentioned it I would be warning you like He asked, neither am I ashamed of God. I'm not sure why you are offended by my belief since you once believed it.

---

As for me, no biting please.

As for me...... If you have come here to preach you will be asked to leave.

You can find a lot of sermons at sermonaudio.com. I am here to discuss and to ask questions and answer them.

---

Hello, nonthinker. Welcome to AF.

Hello Epimenthean. Was Newton a nonthinker?