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Hello atheistforum
#92
RE: Hello atheistforum
(February 4, 2012 at 11:49 pm)Abracadabra Wrote: I hope you aren't planning on becoming an apologist for the Christian doctrine because you are extremely lame at it.
Your so-called "subtle difference" here is utter nonsense.
I guess I'll have to teach you about your own religion.
In Christianity a "sin" is nothing other than disobedience of God. Therefore if unbelief is a "sin" all that means is that God is demanding that people must believe in him lest he will be exceedingly cruel and hurtful toward them.
So it's a religion about a mean hateful egotistical God who will be extremely hateful and hurtful toward people for merely not believing in him.
Your "subtle apologetic argument" here hasn't changed that fact at all.
The religion is about an egotistical God who unrighteous hates people for merely not believing in him and will condemn them to eternal damnation for this very thing.
Sorry to hear that you are in denial of what the religion actually teaches.

I am not in denial of what Christianity teaches, I am disputing your mischaracterization of it. If you had no sin, you wouldn't need Gods forgiveness. But everyone sins so therefore you're already in trouble before you believe or disbelieve. What John is saying is, if you don't believe you are condemned, because there is no way left to be forgiven for the sins you already have. Unbelief is simply one more sin on the pile.

What the bible says is that no one is really an unbeliever. That you're suppressing the truth due to sin.

(February 4, 2012 at 11:49 pm)Abracadabra Wrote: I believe that I'm an eternal spiritual being because I have always intuitively felt that this is the case. It's strictly a "intuitive belief", I can't prove it logically. In terms of logic I can only offer reasons why I feel that it is rationally plausible. I could be wrong. I confess that to myself and to the entire world. This is why I list myself as an "Agnostic Spiritualist". I do not have irrefutable knowledge of this spiritual essence to reality. I'm just personally confident on an intuitive level that this is the true state of affairs.

Well, what do you base your intuitions on?

(February 4, 2012 at 11:49 pm)Abracadabra Wrote: In fact, while I'm confessing truths allow me to also confess the truth that I cannot honestly rationalize the God portrayed in the Hebrew fables. When I tell you that I see it as being a portrait of an utterly stupid, hateful , and overbearingly ignorant picture of God, that is the truth. So since this is how I honestly feel would you have me lie to this God and pretend that I believe in him just in the hopes of pacifying his anxiety to hurt me for not believing in him? What the hell kind of a God would that be? My only hope for salvation would be to lie to this God and pretend that the ancient Hebrew bull shit makes sense? You've got to be kidding me.

What exactly is it that informs this picture of God that you have?

(February 4, 2012 at 11:49 pm)Abracadabra Wrote: No. It would simply be making a statement about my beliefs concerning human knowledge in general. I also believe that I can know with absolute certainty that the biblical portrait of God cannot possibly be true (as it is described in the scriptures). To me it's obvious that it can't possibly be true (as written) because the God that it portrays would necessarily need to be a hateful cold-blooded ass. And that flies in the very face of what the God is supposed to be like. So the stories (as written) cannot possibly be true. They simply contradict themselves at every turn of the page. If there is any spiritual truth in the biblical writings at all, it is very sparsely scattered between mostly bull shit. I also personally believe that the rumors about the character of Jesus were sparked by the life of a Jewish Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva, but that's a whole other story.

Do you believe truth is relative or absolute? Not that I am agreeing with your assesment, but how would you know what God is "supposed" to be like? What are the contradictions that you see and do you not believe in the historical existence of Jesus?

(February 4, 2012 at 11:49 pm)Abracadabra Wrote: Well, my spiritual philosophy is pretty deep. It would be impossible to convey it to you in posts as a practical matter. But to try to sum it up in a nutshell, I take it to mean that there exists a spiritual essence to life and we are it. It seems pretty simple to me. The only place it gets complex is if you are going to demand a lengthy description of how I think of spirit. But truthfully even that should ultimately be quite easy. In short, spirit is unknowable. What more needs to be said? This would be like me asking you to describe to me the true nature of the biblilcal God. Like as if you should be able to do that.

Something more needs to be said, I think; could you describe how you think of spirit? You can also some aspects of Gods nature from the bible, such as being all-knowing, all-powerful, omni-benevolent, etc.

(February 4, 2012 at 11:49 pm)Abracadabra Wrote: Now let's talk about your testimony a bit. I'd like to share with you some of my impression on that. In the OP you have stated the following: Then later you replied to me stating the following:Now let me tell you something. I was personally born and raised as a Christian, and I almost became a preacher before I realized how utterly idiotic the religion truly is. So I know quite a bit about it.

What caused you to reject Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?

(February 4, 2012 at 11:49 pm)Abracadabra Wrote: But look at what you are claiming above: You are basically claiming that you did not go to Chrisitanity because you were seeking out God. Nor did you go because you had already believed in this God. But instead you went to Jesus Christ the Almighty as a TEST to tempt the Lord they God to prove himself to you.

No, I was seeking out God at the time.

(February 4, 2012 at 11:49 pm)Abracadabra Wrote: And according to you he went along with your plan. After you had given yourself over him as a TEST to see if he was real he came into your life, fixed up all your petty problems, and filled you with joy to PROVE to you that he does indeed exist. And now you are a passionate BELIEVER because Jesus came into your life and proved himself to you passing your TEST. Personally I don't think that's how it's supposed work in any case

I came to Christianity because I felt led there, so I went to church to see whether I was mistaken; that was the test. I figured if God wanted me He would let me know. After a few services, I felt called to give my life to Jesus. I wasn't asking God to prove it; what I did was put faith in God that His claims were true. My belief in God is affirmed moment to moment; Since I received the Holy Spirit, I always experience the presence of God.

(February 4, 2012 at 11:49 pm)Abracadabra Wrote: But to each their own. I'm glad that you got something out of your challenge to Jesus. But you're definitely not going to sell the religion to me. I personally don't believe that you even remotely understand what the religion is about.

I have a pretty good idea what Christianity is about. Since you were to be a pastor, you must surely understand the scriptures very well. Take your best shot..I love a good challenge.
Psalm 19:1-2

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
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Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 5:18 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Darwinian - February 2, 2012 at 5:20 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by 5thHorseman - February 2, 2012 at 5:23 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 5:31 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Darwinian - February 2, 2012 at 5:38 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 6:30 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by The Grand Nudger - February 2, 2012 at 6:44 pm
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RE: Hello atheistforum - by reverendjeremiah - February 2, 2012 at 5:51 pm
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RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 6:34 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Faith No More - February 2, 2012 at 8:03 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 9:22 pm
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RE: Hello atheistforum - by Doubting Thomas - February 2, 2012 at 6:32 pm
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RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 11:01 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 13, 2012 at 11:54 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by reverendjeremiah - February 3, 2012 at 12:22 am
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RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 4, 2012 at 4:32 am
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RE: Hello atheistforum - by Faith No More - February 3, 2012 at 11:18 pm
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RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 4, 2012 at 3:21 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 4, 2012 at 4:30 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by KichigaiNeko - February 4, 2012 at 5:45 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 4, 2012 at 5:48 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by reverendjeremiah - February 4, 2012 at 9:56 am
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RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 4, 2012 at 5:57 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by KichigaiNeko - February 4, 2012 at 6:10 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Faith No More - February 4, 2012 at 9:59 am
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RE: Hello atheistforum - by SophiaGrace - February 4, 2012 at 2:34 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 4, 2012 at 5:14 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Abracadabra - February 4, 2012 at 6:53 pm
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RE: Hello atheistforum - by Abracadabra - February 4, 2012 at 8:22 pm
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RE: Hello atheistforum - by Abracadabra - February 4, 2012 at 11:49 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 5, 2012 at 12:46 am
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RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 6, 2012 at 9:02 pm
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RE: Hello atheistforum - by Abracadabra - February 8, 2012 at 5:55 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by The Grand Nudger - February 9, 2012 at 3:49 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Shell B - February 10, 2012 at 12:16 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by The Grand Nudger - February 10, 2012 at 12:55 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 11, 2012 at 1:18 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Mister Agenda - February 11, 2012 at 1:28 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 11, 2012 at 1:34 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 13, 2012 at 10:10 am
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RE: Hello atheistforum - by leo-rcc - February 13, 2012 at 11:03 am
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RE: Hello atheistforum - by leo-rcc - February 14, 2012 at 6:49 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Ace Otana - February 14, 2012 at 6:54 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by The Grand Nudger - February 13, 2012 at 11:49 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Cyberman - February 13, 2012 at 2:26 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 13, 2012 at 10:02 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Cyberman - February 13, 2012 at 11:19 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 13, 2012 at 11:52 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 15, 2012 at 8:46 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by thesummerqueen - February 15, 2012 at 9:49 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by The Grand Nudger - February 15, 2012 at 9:49 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Nebuloso - February 16, 2012 at 8:40 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 16, 2012 at 10:37 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Nebuloso - February 16, 2012 at 11:40 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 17, 2012 at 12:43 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Whateverist - February 17, 2012 at 1:19 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 17, 2012 at 1:47 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Whateverist - February 17, 2012 at 1:53 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Nebuloso - February 17, 2012 at 3:54 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 16, 2012 at 8:58 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 17, 2012 at 1:36 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by KichigaiNeko - February 17, 2012 at 5:13 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Sciwoman - February 17, 2012 at 7:42 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by J.D. - February 18, 2012 at 3:17 am
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RE: Hello atheistforum - by Undeceived - February 18, 2012 at 1:40 pm
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RE: Hello atheistforum - by Undeceived - February 19, 2012 at 4:04 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 19, 2012 at 8:43 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Undeceived - February 20, 2012 at 4:36 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Whateverist - February 19, 2012 at 5:45 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 18, 2012 at 2:21 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by ElDinero - February 19, 2012 at 8:45 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by thesummerqueen - February 19, 2012 at 10:14 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Bgood - February 20, 2012 at 12:14 am

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