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Hello atheistforum
RE: Hello atheistforum
(February 8, 2012 at 6:08 am)brotherlylove Wrote: What standards did you apply?

The null hypothesis must be defeated by evidence. More extraordinary claims require commensurate evidence. My desire for something to be true doesn't make it more likely to be true, if anything, the opposite.

(February 8, 2012 at 6:08 am)brotherlylove Wrote: Psychic is not the right word to describe the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. My general criteria are being able to shape and alter events and circumstances both large and small, predict the future, know me completely, always being there, and a pure love.

I think an imaginary friend can satisfy the emotional criteria and selection bias can cover the rest. I'm willing to entertain any demonstrations of supernatural power you can arrange via the creator of the universe being inside you.

(February 8, 2012 at 6:08 am)brotherlylove Wrote: I don't expect you'll take my word for it; I pray God will have mercy on you and draw you near to Him.

Fair enough, if he exists he is more than welcome to draw me.

(February 8, 2012 at 6:08 am)brotherlylove Wrote: Satan.

I'm sorry, I can't resist: 'Isn't THAT special!' Wink

I think you underestimate the mischief we mere humans can get up to on our own account, but I accept your view is consistent with your beliefs. So original sin isn't a sufficient curse, God also chooses to let Satan have free reign over billions of people whose primary crime is being raised in the wrong religion?

(February 8, 2012 at 6:08 am)brotherlylove Wrote: Again, even skeptical historians believe that the apostles were honestly convinced of the resurrection of Christ.

I don't think the consensus is as one-sided as you do.

(February 8, 2012 at 6:08 am)brotherlylove Wrote: Further, all but one of them were all martyred for their faith. The theory doesn't match the facts.

People will die for what they believe in. That doesn't make what they believe in true. And are you counting Judas among the martyrs, or are you counting Matthias as his 'replacement'? John is the one who died of natural causes.

(February 8, 2012 at 6:08 am)brotherlylove Wrote: You have a long way to go to prove a conspiracy.

I've never contended a conspiracy. Only a meme combined with a game of Chinese whispers where the early Christians didn't write down the Gospels for decades because they thought the Kindgom of Heaven was due any minute, and finally caught on that their movement was in trouble if they didn't write things down. Of course, lots of people had that idea and dozens of Gospels were flying around 50-100 years after the reported events. Some mistakes and exaggerations are to be expected even with the best of intentions and pious sincerity. But I don't have to prove anything. It was two thousand years ago, the books that wound up in the Bible were picked by a committee, and no one can be sure what actually happened...although it is reasonable to rule out resurrection as a likely event when pretty much any natural alternative is more plausible (like not really being dead in the first place) and nobody besides Christians writing down that the dead were walking the streets of Jerusalem, and they didn't bother to record it until 50+ years later. It's all a bit much to take seriously. It's like being a Mormon, you have to be on the inside for it to make sense. Under the circumstances, the null hypothesis stands.

(February 8, 2012 at 6:08 am)brotherlylove Wrote: I can agree with some of this, however, it doesn't follow that belief in God is a delusion, or is ruled out by, or mutually exclusive with science.

I wouldn't call belief in God (or ancestor spirits, or whatever) a delusion. It's only natural to believe what you were raised to believe and that people you trust treat as real. It's actually a problem that God isn't mutually exclusive with science. There are claims made about God that science could confirm if true. At every turn, science could have found evidence clearly supports the claims of the Bible: global flood, life forms not related to each other by heredity, young earth, universe appeared as is out of nothing, prayers to God have a higher success rate than prayers to teddy bears...this particular God doesn't seem to have evidence where evidence would be expected if it really existed per the Biblical description.

(February 8, 2012 at 6:08 am)brotherlylove Wrote: According to statistics, believers live longer, have happier and healthier lives and are less prone to depression and suicide. In any case, the changes in my life are remarkable, and happened with virtually no effort on my part. I think that is noteworthy, you are free to disagree. It's not the central point to any argument I am making.

In America, where atheists are a tiny minority, that's true. In countries with much larger populations of atheists, not so much. It's the close-knit community that benefits theists and isolation that harms atheists. I was 42 before I knowingly met my third atheist. Thanks to the internet it is easier to find each other and escape that isolation. Now I know hundreds of atheists...or more specifically, rational skeptics. I predict that subsequent studies will show our situation improving. I appreciate that you are not appealing to consequences, as in 'whoever has the best outcome has the truth.'
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Messages In This Thread
Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 5:18 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Darwinian - February 2, 2012 at 5:20 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by 5thHorseman - February 2, 2012 at 5:23 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 5:31 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Darwinian - February 2, 2012 at 5:38 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 6:30 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by The Grand Nudger - February 2, 2012 at 6:44 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Ace Otana - February 13, 2012 at 11:00 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by reverendjeremiah - February 2, 2012 at 5:51 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Faith No More - February 2, 2012 at 5:58 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 6:34 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Faith No More - February 2, 2012 at 8:03 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 9:22 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Whateverist - February 3, 2012 at 10:43 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Doubting Thomas - February 2, 2012 at 6:32 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 6:38 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Minimalist - February 2, 2012 at 6:34 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 2, 2012 at 9:41 pm
Hello atheistforum - by Zen Badger - February 2, 2012 at 6:35 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 6:44 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Norfolk And Chance - February 6, 2012 at 4:27 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by reverendjeremiah - February 6, 2012 at 4:41 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 6, 2012 at 9:05 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Doubting Thomas - February 2, 2012 at 6:45 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 7:23 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Michelle_Patton - February 2, 2012 at 7:33 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 7:43 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Michelle_Patton - February 2, 2012 at 8:08 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 9:16 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Michelle_Patton - February 2, 2012 at 10:28 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 11:01 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 13, 2012 at 11:54 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by reverendjeremiah - February 3, 2012 at 12:22 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by The Grand Nudger - February 2, 2012 at 6:46 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Doubting Thomas - February 2, 2012 at 6:55 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by KichigaiNeko - February 2, 2012 at 9:22 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 9:33 pm
Hello atheistforum - by Zen Badger - February 2, 2012 at 9:28 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by frankiej - February 2, 2012 at 9:43 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 10:16 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by KichigaiNeko - February 2, 2012 at 10:35 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 2, 2012 at 10:39 pm
Hello atheistforum - by Zen Badger - February 2, 2012 at 11:32 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 2, 2012 at 11:38 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Zen Badger - February 3, 2012 at 6:20 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by RW_9 - February 3, 2012 at 12:19 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 3, 2012 at 12:51 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Rayaan - February 3, 2012 at 1:11 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 3, 2012 at 1:36 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by KichigaiNeko - February 3, 2012 at 12:34 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 3, 2012 at 12:47 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Bgood - February 3, 2012 at 1:12 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by RW_9 - February 3, 2012 at 1:15 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 3, 2012 at 2:39 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 3, 2012 at 10:59 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by RW_9 - February 3, 2012 at 3:11 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by LastPoet - February 3, 2012 at 9:50 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 3, 2012 at 5:44 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by reverendjeremiah - February 3, 2012 at 6:16 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Erinome - February 3, 2012 at 10:50 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Doubting Thomas - February 3, 2012 at 3:01 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Violet - February 3, 2012 at 3:09 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Cyberman - February 3, 2012 at 4:01 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Faith No More - February 3, 2012 at 5:59 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 3, 2012 at 6:39 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Cinjin - February 4, 2012 at 4:18 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 4, 2012 at 4:32 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Cyberman - February 3, 2012 at 6:18 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Cinjin - February 3, 2012 at 6:26 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by padraic - February 3, 2012 at 7:49 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 4, 2012 at 2:51 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Faith No More - February 3, 2012 at 11:18 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 4, 2012 at 3:03 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 4, 2012 at 3:21 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 4, 2012 at 4:30 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by KichigaiNeko - February 4, 2012 at 5:45 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 4, 2012 at 5:48 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by reverendjeremiah - February 4, 2012 at 9:56 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by KichigaiNeko - February 4, 2012 at 5:55 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 4, 2012 at 5:57 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by KichigaiNeko - February 4, 2012 at 6:10 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Faith No More - February 4, 2012 at 9:59 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 4, 2012 at 6:13 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by downbeatplumb - February 5, 2012 at 1:42 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by downbeatplumb - February 4, 2012 at 10:17 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by popeyespappy - February 4, 2012 at 10:50 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 4, 2012 at 11:10 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by SophiaGrace - February 4, 2012 at 2:34 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 4, 2012 at 5:14 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Abracadabra - February 4, 2012 at 6:53 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 4, 2012 at 7:26 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Abracadabra - February 4, 2012 at 8:22 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 4, 2012 at 9:25 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Abracadabra - February 4, 2012 at 11:49 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 5, 2012 at 12:46 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Abracadabra - February 5, 2012 at 1:26 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 5, 2012 at 4:25 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Abracadabra - February 5, 2012 at 12:12 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by reverendjeremiah - February 5, 2012 at 2:29 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Abracadabra - February 5, 2012 at 3:16 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 6, 2012 at 12:49 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Sciwoman - February 5, 2012 at 1:48 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by KichigaiNeko - February 4, 2012 at 11:54 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by reverendjeremiah - February 5, 2012 at 12:34 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by KichigaiNeko - February 5, 2012 at 12:39 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by reverendjeremiah - February 5, 2012 at 12:49 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 5, 2012 at 12:58 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Sciwoman - February 5, 2012 at 1:25 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 5, 2012 at 9:30 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 5, 2012 at 9:35 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by SophiaGrace - February 5, 2012 at 11:43 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by RW_9 - February 5, 2012 at 1:10 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by SilverFrog - February 5, 2012 at 4:39 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 5, 2012 at 6:24 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by renew - February 5, 2012 at 9:57 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Zen Badger - February 6, 2012 at 8:19 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 6, 2012 at 9:22 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 6, 2012 at 8:54 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 6, 2012 at 9:15 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 6, 2012 at 10:24 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Zen Badger - February 7, 2012 at 7:26 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Mister Agenda - February 7, 2012 at 12:56 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 8, 2012 at 6:08 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Zen Badger - February 8, 2012 at 7:06 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 10, 2012 at 12:11 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Abracadabra - February 10, 2012 at 12:46 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Mister Agenda - February 10, 2012 at 4:06 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 11, 2012 at 5:49 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Michelle_Patton - February 11, 2012 at 6:01 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 13, 2012 at 10:02 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 13, 2012 at 10:16 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Mister Agenda - February 14, 2012 at 12:45 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Darwinian - February 11, 2012 at 6:21 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 11, 2012 at 6:26 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by downbeatplumb - February 11, 2012 at 6:36 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 11, 2012 at 6:52 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 13, 2012 at 10:16 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Mister Agenda - February 11, 2012 at 12:58 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by renew - February 6, 2012 at 10:41 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Mister Agenda - February 6, 2012 at 12:07 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Mister Agenda - February 14, 2012 at 5:54 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 15, 2012 at 6:51 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Mister Agenda - February 15, 2012 at 7:17 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Mister Agenda - February 16, 2012 at 1:34 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Mister Agenda - February 16, 2012 at 4:46 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 16, 2012 at 7:28 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Nebuloso - February 16, 2012 at 7:46 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 16, 2012 at 8:10 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Mister Agenda - February 20, 2012 at 4:42 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 18, 2012 at 1:48 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 18, 2012 at 9:00 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by downbeatplumb - February 18, 2012 at 11:37 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 6, 2012 at 9:02 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 6, 2012 at 9:18 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 7, 2012 at 2:07 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 7, 2012 at 9:00 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Abracadabra - February 8, 2012 at 5:55 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by The Grand Nudger - February 9, 2012 at 3:49 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Shell B - February 10, 2012 at 12:16 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by The Grand Nudger - February 10, 2012 at 12:55 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 11, 2012 at 1:18 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Mister Agenda - February 11, 2012 at 1:28 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 11, 2012 at 1:34 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 13, 2012 at 10:10 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 13, 2012 at 10:24 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by leo-rcc - February 13, 2012 at 11:03 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Ace Otana - February 13, 2012 at 11:11 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 13, 2012 at 11:17 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Ace Otana - February 13, 2012 at 11:19 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by leo-rcc - February 14, 2012 at 6:49 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Ace Otana - February 14, 2012 at 6:54 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by The Grand Nudger - February 13, 2012 at 11:49 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Cyberman - February 13, 2012 at 2:26 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 13, 2012 at 10:02 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Cyberman - February 13, 2012 at 11:19 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 13, 2012 at 11:52 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 15, 2012 at 8:46 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by thesummerqueen - February 15, 2012 at 9:49 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by The Grand Nudger - February 15, 2012 at 9:49 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Nebuloso - February 16, 2012 at 8:40 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 16, 2012 at 10:37 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Nebuloso - February 16, 2012 at 11:40 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 17, 2012 at 12:43 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Whateverist - February 17, 2012 at 1:19 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by brotherlylove - February 17, 2012 at 1:47 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Whateverist - February 17, 2012 at 1:53 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Nebuloso - February 17, 2012 at 3:54 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 16, 2012 at 8:58 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 17, 2012 at 1:36 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by KichigaiNeko - February 17, 2012 at 5:13 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Sciwoman - February 17, 2012 at 7:42 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by J.D. - February 18, 2012 at 3:17 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Sciwoman - February 18, 2012 at 1:14 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Undeceived - February 18, 2012 at 1:40 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Sciwoman - February 18, 2012 at 2:35 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Undeceived - February 19, 2012 at 4:04 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Phil - February 19, 2012 at 8:43 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Undeceived - February 20, 2012 at 4:36 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Whateverist - February 19, 2012 at 5:45 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Epimethean - February 18, 2012 at 2:21 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by ElDinero - February 19, 2012 at 8:45 am
RE: Hello atheistforum - by thesummerqueen - February 19, 2012 at 10:14 pm
RE: Hello atheistforum - by Bgood - February 20, 2012 at 12:14 am

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