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For football/soccer fans, predictions for the World Cup
RE: For football/soccer fans, predictions for the World Cup
(July 19, 2014 at 9:15 am)Napoléon Wrote: More skillful? How do you work that one? Just because Ronaldo uses power he's automatically less skillful? I don't see the logic here. Ronaldo is famed for his ability to hit a ball in a certain way. I can't remember anyone talking about how Messi takes a free kick, yet people talk about how Ronaldo hits the ball right on the valve. He was the first person to start doing this and it has been copied by several other footballers. I can also remember a bunch of awesome Ronaldo free kicks. I'm not saying Messi doesn't score free kicks, I'm saying Ronaldo is more effective. He can score from much further out than Messi too. Again, when was the last time Messi scored from 30+ yards.

When weilding an axe an untrained wood cutter goes for power. A skilled cutter can achieve more with less. For me I'd prefer a curved trajectory because it is more deceiving. Think of the greats... Roberto Carlos, David Beckham.

Being famed for something doesn't mean you are particularly skilled at it. Could it be that Messi's set pieces are conventional and Ronaldo's being unorthodox attract more attention? He is very dramatic with his stance and measuring.


(July 19, 2014 at 9:15 am)Napoléon Wrote: Meh, maybe. Over 100 meters Ronaldo would be winning every time. I'd argue the instances of having to 'leave a man for dust' are far fewer than having to run past someone at full speed.

Ronaldo does not run 100 meters in a match flat out. This point is irrelevant. In soccer the players run in short bursts rarely reaching full speed. Acceleration on the other hand is a frequently used attribute.


(July 19, 2014 at 9:15 am)Napoléon Wrote: Ofcourse he's stronger. He's an out and out beast. What sense do I mean? I mean in the sense that he's stronger, he can knock other people off the ball, hold them off more, jump and power into headers. Messi has great balance and a smaller frame, which allows him to skip over tackles and such, but rarely do you see him out strengthening someone who is side by side with him. Also people go on like Messi never dives either, which pisses me off. Like he's some beacon of fair play. He's just as much a cunt at times as what Ronaldo is.
Yes, I concede this point. I disagree with the Messi diving though. Messi has demonstrated throughout his career that he is a player that prefers to be on his feet. Fetching a video with Messi diving is inadmissible as evidence. Those dives are taken completely out of context. For example there is no indication of time in the video. The occurances of the dives could be few and far between, but this is a sample taken over a long period of time. This creates the illusion of Messi being a frequent offender. This is simply not true. I'd go as far as saying that Messi almost goes down as a last resort. Ronaldo goes down intentionally

(July 19, 2014 at 9:15 am)Napoléon Wrote: Ronaldo also scores 100 times more headers than Messi ever does. Ronaldo is also capable of smashing the ball from 40 yards into the top corner. I wouldn't underestimate Ronaldo's dribbling either. All in all, Ronaldo is the more complete, well rounded player. Messi is the best dribbler in the world no doubt, but in terms of the best player? The best all round footballer? Ronaldo.

There's a reason I didn't challenge you on heading and long range shots. Ronaldo is by far the better man here. Since you've found the need to bring this up again, I'll say a few words on it. Let's not make the mistake of thinking something is likely simply because it is possible. When was the last time Ronaldo scored a goal like he did against Porto in the champions league campaign of 2009?

(July 19, 2014 at 9:15 am)Napoléon Wrote: It's not really. It's pretty obvious he wouldn't score as many in another team. He wouldn't have Xavi and Iniesta providing him assist after assist. I think anyone with a half decent footballing brain would accept that Messi, anywhere other than Barca, wouldn't score the amount or kinds of goals he currently does. It's not an argument from ignorance, because you can see the kind of attributes he has and how much he relies on his team mates. Ronaldo doesn't rely on anyone but himself. Ronaldo has proven himself in another (much more physically demanding might I add) league. That's not necessarily a -1 for Messi, but it is a definite +1 for Ronaldo.

I don't want to be pedantic but it is an argument from ignorance. You are not relying on actual information but assumed. Instead you are leaning on inductive reasoning. I call even on your point of Messi relying on his team mates more. Messi has scored countless individual, sensational goals. At the peak of his powers he can take on 5 men and will a goal out of thin air. He even did this in a classico WITH Ronaldo on the same field. Messi also destroyed a whole team in Maradona fashion further fuelling comparisons with the Argentina legend.

I agree with your final statement in this paragraph.

(July 19, 2014 at 9:15 am)Napoléon Wrote: A lot of this is preference though. Stats wise you could make arguments for either player. But I think it's undeniable that Ronaldo's all round game makes him the more complete player. I'd say he's the better player because of that.

Ronaldo certainly is the more complete player. He comes fully loaded with all sorts of skills for the game. But I define best as who can get you the win, who can show up in the big matches and who is more reliable. While valid, I criticise your definition simply because it is primarily theoretical. Messi is the best.

Ps, I'm too lazy to check for spelling errors and gramar. It's ten minutes into Monday on my side of the world.

(July 19, 2014 at 10:28 am)Blackout Wrote: ...the fact he is a redneck...

Bull-fucking-shit!
8000 years before Jesus, the Egyptian god Horus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life."
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Messages In This Thread
RE: For football/soccer fans, predictions for the World Cup - by BlackMason - July 20, 2014 at 6:07 pm

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