Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 28, 2024, 7:46 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The First Century Void
#17
RE: The First Century Void
(June 17, 2017 at 12:24 am)Minimalist Wrote: First off, it is Carrier's observation - although I have checked it out and found it accurate - and frankly he has a PH D in history which I daresay beats some guy waving a bible around.

I also disagree about the argument from silence which is a canard that jesus freaks trot out whenever their nonsense does not show up in the record.  Usually, they misuse it or truncate it by ignoring the admonition that the silence must be in a context where one would expect the evidence to be.  To wit, when an inscription about Thutmoses III does not mention Alexander the Great this should not ring any alarm bells as Thutmoses predated Alex by over a thousand years.  However, when the 2d century xtian writer, Justin Martyr does not mention "paul" or any of the named gospels which you guys hold so dear, that silence speaks volumes.

To anyone who is willing to listen, that is.

Yes... it's Carrier's observation,  which you are proposing here (and still seem to be supporting).  And and I did mention, that the same with the evidence of absence, that the burden is on the one putting the argument forth to show why the evidence should be there when it is not.   I also don't accept your argument from authority;  you will need to do better than that (besides there are many PHD's who disagree with Carrier and his method if you want to play dueling scholars).

As for Justyn the Martyr, that may be explained by both his background and his audience.  Such as his often referenced Ddialog with Trypho, (a Jew).  I suppose again, you would only focus on this one person, while ignoring other early writers.   I did a search in the Anti-Nicene Fathers Volume 1 which is within that period.  Romans is quoted 131 times, as is 1 Corinthians quoted 212 times; the list goes on, but I think you get the idea. 

You are also incorrect, about Justin Martyr.   While he may not refer back to the New Testament as much as others, he does reference them on occasion.   He may not reference them by name, but he does refer to them in some of his arguments using phrases such as "it is written" and "it is recorded"  and he refers to them as "Memoirs of the apostles" or just "Memoirs"  He also refers to Revelations and cites it specifically to one of the Apostles of Christ whose name was John.  You can see more here:  http://www.ntcanon.org/Justin_Martyr.shtml

So yes, I don't hear as much as you it seems from the silence, but a little research shows that you need to do more (research) if you are trying to make a valid case agaisnt!

Edit to add:  The reasoning from silence isn't impossible, but it is difficult to maintain as a logical argument.  Which is why I think the the Wiki article I cited earlier just defaults to fallacious.  Besides, I don't think you can cherry pick what one person didn't say from that period, and ignore the volumes that others did say.  Your reasoning looses footing rather quickly.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man.  - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire.  - Martin Luther
Reply



Messages In This Thread
The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 10, 2017 at 6:22 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 11, 2017 at 5:36 am
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 11, 2017 at 10:39 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Gawdzilla Sama - June 11, 2017 at 6:19 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 11, 2017 at 1:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 11, 2017 at 4:45 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 11, 2017 at 11:40 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Gawdzilla Sama - June 11, 2017 at 7:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 13, 2017 at 7:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 13, 2017 at 7:35 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by ignoramus - June 14, 2017 at 4:38 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 13, 2017 at 7:41 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 14, 2017 at 10:22 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - June 16, 2017 at 5:09 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 16, 2017 at 9:41 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 17, 2017 at 12:24 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 17, 2017 at 3:08 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 17, 2017 at 10:51 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 17, 2017 at 1:21 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 11:24 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 18, 2017 at 2:44 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Secular Elf - June 17, 2017 at 12:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 20, 2017 at 6:04 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Secular Elf - June 20, 2017 at 4:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 20, 2017 at 10:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 22, 2017 at 6:24 am
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 22, 2017 at 11:19 am
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 1:33 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 17, 2017 at 1:56 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 2:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 17, 2017 at 2:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 2:05 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 20, 2017 at 11:04 am
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 2:39 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 20, 2017 at 11:12 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 20, 2017 at 5:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 20, 2017 at 10:34 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 22, 2017 at 3:23 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 20, 2017 at 10:36 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 20, 2017 at 10:41 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 22, 2017 at 12:21 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Secular Elf - June 27, 2017 at 3:54 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 27, 2017 at 11:28 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 28, 2017 at 3:42 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - June 28, 2017 at 8:18 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 28, 2017 at 11:28 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 22, 2017 at 9:03 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 22, 2017 at 9:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 22, 2017 at 11:07 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 22, 2017 at 11:45 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 23, 2017 at 8:15 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 6:00 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 24, 2017 at 6:50 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 24, 2017 at 7:17 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 7:53 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 24, 2017 at 9:52 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 23, 2017 at 12:53 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 24, 2017 at 3:48 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 24, 2017 at 5:53 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 24, 2017 at 6:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by GUBU - June 24, 2017 at 7:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 6:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 7:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 10:08 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 24, 2017 at 10:10 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 10:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 10:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 26, 2017 at 6:57 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 26, 2017 at 12:58 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 26, 2017 at 3:32 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - June 26, 2017 at 7:19 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 26, 2017 at 10:18 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 26, 2017 at 10:47 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 26, 2017 at 11:52 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 27, 2017 at 8:31 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 27, 2017 at 10:02 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 27, 2017 at 11:18 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Wyrd of Gawd - July 3, 2017 at 4:16 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 11:51 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - July 3, 2017 at 5:55 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Wyrd of Gawd - July 3, 2017 at 10:18 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - June 26, 2017 at 1:13 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 26, 2017 at 3:30 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - June 27, 2017 at 12:34 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 1:05 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 27, 2017 at 2:10 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 3:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Secular Elf - June 27, 2017 at 4:24 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 4:03 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 5:36 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 11:28 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - June 27, 2017 at 11:44 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 27, 2017 at 11:50 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - June 27, 2017 at 11:59 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 28, 2017 at 9:52 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - June 28, 2017 at 2:26 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - June 28, 2017 at 2:34 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - June 28, 2017 at 3:07 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - June 28, 2017 at 3:22 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 28, 2017 at 3:42 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 2, 2017 at 12:27 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 11:17 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 2, 2017 at 6:06 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 3, 2017 at 2:14 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 3, 2017 at 3:38 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 5:45 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 3, 2017 at 6:16 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 6:54 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 3, 2017 at 7:06 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 10:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 7:57 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 10:47 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 11:13 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 11:34 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 11:43 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 11:50 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 11:52 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 4, 2017 at 12:07 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Wyrd of Gawd - July 4, 2017 at 2:12 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - July 4, 2017 at 4:35 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 7:37 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 4, 2017 at 6:13 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 4, 2017 at 6:52 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 4, 2017 at 1:31 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 4, 2017 at 4:22 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 4, 2017 at 4:54 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 7:09 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 4, 2017 at 7:11 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 1:53 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 3:39 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by JackRussell - July 4, 2017 at 4:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 4:37 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 6, 2017 at 8:15 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 6, 2017 at 8:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 6, 2017 at 10:00 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 6, 2017 at 10:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 6, 2017 at 11:21 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 7, 2017 at 7:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 7, 2017 at 9:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 7, 2017 at 7:59 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 7, 2017 at 8:56 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 7, 2017 at 10:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 7, 2017 at 11:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 7, 2017 at 10:13 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 7, 2017 at 11:19 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 8, 2017 at 1:48 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 8, 2017 at 12:48 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 8, 2017 at 2:08 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - July 8, 2017 at 4:10 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 8, 2017 at 9:24 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - July 9, 2017 at 4:56 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 9, 2017 at 6:41 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 9, 2017 at 9:39 am
RE: The First Century Void - by GUBU - July 9, 2017 at 1:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - July 10, 2017 at 11:03 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 10, 2017 at 12:25 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by GUBU - July 10, 2017 at 3:08 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 10, 2017 at 11:16 am
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - July 8, 2017 at 9:07 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 10, 2017 at 11:15 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - July 10, 2017 at 11:50 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 10, 2017 at 12:15 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 10, 2017 at 12:57 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - July 10, 2017 at 12:00 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 10, 2017 at 11:53 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 10, 2017 at 12:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 10, 2017 at 12:16 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 10, 2017 at 12:55 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - July 10, 2017 at 6:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 10, 2017 at 7:42 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 12, 2017 at 8:03 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 13, 2017 at 9:36 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 13, 2017 at 9:40 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 20, 2017 at 1:20 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 12:30 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 25, 2017 at 1:45 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 5:49 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 7:43 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 25, 2017 at 11:14 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 3:33 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 4:16 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 25, 2017 at 4:21 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by GUBU - July 25, 2017 at 4:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 4:39 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 4:56 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 5:07 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 5:35 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 25, 2017 at 6:30 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 6:54 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 7:18 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 7:49 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 26, 2017 at 11:08 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 26, 2017 at 11:17 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 26, 2017 at 11:14 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - August 3, 2017 at 9:53 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 7, 2017 at 8:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - August 7, 2017 at 11:01 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - August 8, 2017 at 8:32 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 8, 2017 at 9:26 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - August 8, 2017 at 11:19 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - August 8, 2017 at 11:16 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - August 8, 2017 at 12:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - August 8, 2017 at 12:20 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 9, 2017 at 7:22 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - August 10, 2017 at 3:06 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 10, 2017 at 9:49 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - August 9, 2017 at 1:57 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 9, 2017 at 3:25 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - August 12, 2017 at 11:06 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - August 12, 2017 at 1:48 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - August 12, 2017 at 2:46 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - August 12, 2017 at 3:16 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - August 12, 2017 at 4:23 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 12, 2017 at 5:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 6, 2017 at 2:19 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - September 6, 2017 at 9:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 6, 2017 at 10:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 7, 2017 at 4:53 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - September 6, 2017 at 10:22 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 6, 2017 at 10:33 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 7, 2017 at 1:45 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - September 7, 2017 at 2:12 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 7, 2017 at 2:28 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - September 7, 2017 at 2:30 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 7, 2017 at 2:51 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - September 7, 2017 at 7:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 7, 2017 at 8:37 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - September 7, 2017 at 9:15 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 8, 2017 at 4:14 am
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - September 8, 2017 at 9:08 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 8, 2017 at 9:51 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Crossless2.0 - September 8, 2017 at 2:06 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 9, 2017 at 5:59 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  9/11 a "day of destiny" for Germany in the 20th century Deesse23 0 309 November 9, 2018 at 4:57 am
Last Post: Deesse23
  What was the first thread or the first member on Atheistforums.org? Omnicidal 15 2716 January 9, 2018 at 4:16 pm
Last Post: LastPoet
  Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult Minimalist 70 9623 November 2, 2017 at 3:52 pm
Last Post: Amarok
  The Millennium/21st Century Newtonscat 7 3362 January 20, 2015 at 10:17 am
Last Post: Newtonscat



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)