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The First Century Void
#73
RE: The First Century Void
(June 27, 2017 at 8:31 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote:
(June 26, 2017 at 11:52 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: Yes, like one Jesus freak writer, Origen in 2nd century, who actually complained in his treatise "Contra Celsum" that there is no historical mentioning of Jesus "is one of the most difficult undertakings that can be attempted, and is in some instances an impossibility"
chapter 42 http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/04161.htm

So TF would have been his ace in the hole and yet he has never heard of TF although he knows works of Josephus very well.

Where do you see that in chapter 42?  It seems a stretch, to connect your quote cited, with the unquoted part.  Where is he complaining that there is no historical mention of Jesus?

Seems to me, that moreso, he is complaining about the difficulty of debating history with the selective hyperskeptic, and those who throw the baby out with the bath water. Apt for the discussion, but not for the reasons you imply.

Well then look into book 2, ch 33 maybe it'll make you clearer that Origen never ever encountered TF http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/04162.htm
there Celsus asks him what miracles Jesus performed, Origen answers that Jesus' life was indeed full of striking and miraculous events, "but from what other source can we can furnish an answer than from the Gospel narratives?"

Origen could have quoted TF which contains: "...for he was a doer of wonderful works... as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him". But since he never heard of TF he stated only the Gospels.

Not just that but back in book 1 ch 47 he claims that Josephus never mentioned Jesus "Antiquities of the Jews" (the very same book that today contains TF) because he was a Jew:

For in the 18th book of his Antiquities of the Jews, Josephus bears witness to John as having been a Baptist, and as promising purification to those who underwent the rite. Now this writer, although not believing in Jesus as the Christ, in seeking after the cause of the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple, whereas he ought to have said that the conspiracy against Jesus was the cause of these calamities befalling the people, since they put to death Christ, who was a prophet, says nevertheless— being, although against his will, not far from the truth— that these disasters happened to the Jews as a punishment for the death of James the Just, who was a brother of Jesus (called Christ),— the Jews having put him to death, although he was a man most distinguished for his justice.

And yet in TF Josephus apparently had no problem to say that it was because of Jews that Jesus was hanged, from TF: And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
Reply



Messages In This Thread
The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 10, 2017 at 6:22 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 11, 2017 at 5:36 am
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 11, 2017 at 10:39 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Gawdzilla Sama - June 11, 2017 at 6:19 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 11, 2017 at 1:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 11, 2017 at 4:45 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 11, 2017 at 11:40 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Gawdzilla Sama - June 11, 2017 at 7:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 13, 2017 at 7:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 13, 2017 at 7:35 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by ignoramus - June 14, 2017 at 4:38 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 13, 2017 at 7:41 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 14, 2017 at 10:22 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - June 16, 2017 at 5:09 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 16, 2017 at 9:41 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 17, 2017 at 12:24 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 17, 2017 at 3:08 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 17, 2017 at 10:51 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 17, 2017 at 1:21 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 11:24 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 18, 2017 at 2:44 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Secular Elf - June 17, 2017 at 12:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 20, 2017 at 6:04 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Secular Elf - June 20, 2017 at 4:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 20, 2017 at 10:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 22, 2017 at 6:24 am
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 22, 2017 at 11:19 am
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 1:33 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 17, 2017 at 1:56 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 2:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 17, 2017 at 2:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 2:05 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 20, 2017 at 11:04 am
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 2:39 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 20, 2017 at 11:12 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 20, 2017 at 5:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 20, 2017 at 10:34 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 22, 2017 at 3:23 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 20, 2017 at 10:36 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 20, 2017 at 10:41 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 22, 2017 at 12:21 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Secular Elf - June 27, 2017 at 3:54 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 27, 2017 at 11:28 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 28, 2017 at 3:42 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - June 28, 2017 at 8:18 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 28, 2017 at 11:28 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 22, 2017 at 9:03 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 22, 2017 at 9:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 22, 2017 at 11:07 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 22, 2017 at 11:45 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 23, 2017 at 8:15 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 6:00 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 24, 2017 at 6:50 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 24, 2017 at 7:17 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 7:53 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 24, 2017 at 9:52 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 23, 2017 at 12:53 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 24, 2017 at 3:48 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 24, 2017 at 5:53 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 24, 2017 at 6:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by GUBU - June 24, 2017 at 7:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 6:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 7:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 10:08 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 24, 2017 at 10:10 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 10:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 10:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 26, 2017 at 6:57 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 26, 2017 at 12:58 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 26, 2017 at 3:32 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - June 26, 2017 at 7:19 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 26, 2017 at 10:18 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 26, 2017 at 10:47 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 26, 2017 at 11:52 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 27, 2017 at 8:31 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 27, 2017 at 10:02 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 27, 2017 at 11:18 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Wyrd of Gawd - July 3, 2017 at 4:16 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 11:51 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - July 3, 2017 at 5:55 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Wyrd of Gawd - July 3, 2017 at 10:18 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - June 26, 2017 at 1:13 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 26, 2017 at 3:30 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - June 27, 2017 at 12:34 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 1:05 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 27, 2017 at 2:10 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 3:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Secular Elf - June 27, 2017 at 4:24 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 4:03 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 5:36 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 11:28 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - June 27, 2017 at 11:44 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 27, 2017 at 11:50 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - June 27, 2017 at 11:59 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 28, 2017 at 9:52 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - June 28, 2017 at 2:26 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - June 28, 2017 at 2:34 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - June 28, 2017 at 3:07 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - June 28, 2017 at 3:22 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 28, 2017 at 3:42 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 2, 2017 at 12:27 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 11:17 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 2, 2017 at 6:06 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 3, 2017 at 2:14 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 3, 2017 at 3:38 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 5:45 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 3, 2017 at 6:16 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 6:54 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 3, 2017 at 7:06 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 10:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 7:57 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 10:47 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 11:13 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 11:34 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 11:43 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 11:50 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 11:52 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 4, 2017 at 12:07 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Wyrd of Gawd - July 4, 2017 at 2:12 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - July 4, 2017 at 4:35 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 7:37 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 4, 2017 at 6:13 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 4, 2017 at 6:52 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 4, 2017 at 1:31 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 4, 2017 at 4:22 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 4, 2017 at 4:54 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 7:09 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 4, 2017 at 7:11 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 1:53 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 3:39 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by JackRussell - July 4, 2017 at 4:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 4:37 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 6, 2017 at 8:15 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 6, 2017 at 8:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 6, 2017 at 10:00 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 6, 2017 at 10:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 6, 2017 at 11:21 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 7, 2017 at 7:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 7, 2017 at 9:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 7, 2017 at 7:59 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 7, 2017 at 8:56 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 7, 2017 at 10:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 7, 2017 at 11:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 7, 2017 at 10:13 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 7, 2017 at 11:19 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 8, 2017 at 1:48 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 8, 2017 at 12:48 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 8, 2017 at 2:08 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - July 8, 2017 at 4:10 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 8, 2017 at 9:24 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - July 9, 2017 at 4:56 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 9, 2017 at 6:41 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 9, 2017 at 9:39 am
RE: The First Century Void - by GUBU - July 9, 2017 at 1:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - July 10, 2017 at 11:03 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 10, 2017 at 12:25 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by GUBU - July 10, 2017 at 3:08 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 10, 2017 at 11:16 am
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - July 8, 2017 at 9:07 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 10, 2017 at 11:15 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - July 10, 2017 at 11:50 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 10, 2017 at 12:15 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 10, 2017 at 12:57 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - July 10, 2017 at 12:00 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 10, 2017 at 11:53 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 10, 2017 at 12:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 10, 2017 at 12:16 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 10, 2017 at 12:55 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - July 10, 2017 at 6:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 10, 2017 at 7:42 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 12, 2017 at 8:03 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 13, 2017 at 9:36 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 13, 2017 at 9:40 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 20, 2017 at 1:20 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 12:30 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 25, 2017 at 1:45 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 5:49 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 7:43 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 25, 2017 at 11:14 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 3:33 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 4:16 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 25, 2017 at 4:21 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by GUBU - July 25, 2017 at 4:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 4:39 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 4:56 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 5:07 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 5:35 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 25, 2017 at 6:30 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 6:54 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 7:18 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 7:49 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 26, 2017 at 11:08 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 26, 2017 at 11:17 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 26, 2017 at 11:14 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - August 3, 2017 at 9:53 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 7, 2017 at 8:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - August 7, 2017 at 11:01 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - August 8, 2017 at 8:32 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 8, 2017 at 9:26 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - August 8, 2017 at 11:19 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - August 8, 2017 at 11:16 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - August 8, 2017 at 12:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - August 8, 2017 at 12:20 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 9, 2017 at 7:22 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - August 10, 2017 at 3:06 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 10, 2017 at 9:49 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - August 9, 2017 at 1:57 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 9, 2017 at 3:25 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - August 12, 2017 at 11:06 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - August 12, 2017 at 1:48 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - August 12, 2017 at 2:46 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - August 12, 2017 at 3:16 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - August 12, 2017 at 4:23 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 12, 2017 at 5:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 6, 2017 at 2:19 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - September 6, 2017 at 9:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 6, 2017 at 10:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 7, 2017 at 4:53 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - September 6, 2017 at 10:22 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 6, 2017 at 10:33 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 7, 2017 at 1:45 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - September 7, 2017 at 2:12 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 7, 2017 at 2:28 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - September 7, 2017 at 2:30 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 7, 2017 at 2:51 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - September 7, 2017 at 7:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 7, 2017 at 8:37 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - September 7, 2017 at 9:15 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 8, 2017 at 4:14 am
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - September 8, 2017 at 9:08 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 8, 2017 at 9:51 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Crossless2.0 - September 8, 2017 at 2:06 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 9, 2017 at 5:59 am

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