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The First Century Void
#80
RE: The First Century Void
(June 27, 2017 at 3:12 pm)Minimalist Wrote: J. Warner Wallace?  That's the best you can do, RR?  Like I said, you are embarrassing yourself.

Let's move on to First Clement which is an intriguing pile of shit with no stated ties to anyone named "Clement" and which is proving difficult to date.
EarlyChristianWritings cites dates between 80 and 140 but again, it really doesn't matter when it was first written, what matters is what happened after the last editors got through with it.

Tradition dates it to c 95 AD due to a line supposedly referring to the persecution of Domitian.  The problem there is that there was no persecution by Domitian, at least not of xtians.  He may offed a few Jews and/or political rivals associated with his father's and brother's campaigns in Judaea.

But Carrier is arguing, mildly, for a date closer to 60 AD for 1 Clement on the grounds that he does not seem to know about the destruction of the temple.  Yet, no where in the entire work is there so much as a mention of Jews.  (Most of it seems to be a re-hash of OT gibberish and post proto-orthodox power grubbing.  [Obey your bishops, obey your king, obey, obey, obey, you dumb fuck xhristards.]  In short, whoever wrote 1 Clement did not give a flying fuck about the Jews or their temple but was ostensibly trying to exert some authority for the "Church of Rome" in xtian circles which it most certainly did not have until much later.  This is a chastisement of xtians in Corinth. Thus why Carrier expects to see a reference to the temple being destroyed escapes me.

However, where Carrier is correct is that First Clement does not know fuckall about any recent historical jesus.  Much as with the earliest "pauline" writings jesus is nothing more than a cosmic figure who does his thing in outer space.  He, like "paul" has never heard of Mary, Pilate, Nazareth or any of the named gospels which jesus freaks swear were so important.

Even more oddly, our earliest manuscript dates from the 11th century but was not found until 1873 in a Greek text which was found in Constantinople.  We do know it was written by a scribe named "Leo" for all the good that does us!

Exactly. I remember reading that 1 Clement was quite a popular book among Roman and Italian Christians but was later rejected as canon.

The Wikipedia article on the subject is quite interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Epistle_of_Clement
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."--Thomas Jefferson
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Messages In This Thread
The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 10, 2017 at 6:22 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 11, 2017 at 5:36 am
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 11, 2017 at 10:39 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Gawdzilla Sama - June 11, 2017 at 6:19 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 11, 2017 at 1:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 11, 2017 at 4:45 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 11, 2017 at 11:40 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Gawdzilla Sama - June 11, 2017 at 7:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 13, 2017 at 7:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 13, 2017 at 7:35 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by ignoramus - June 14, 2017 at 4:38 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 13, 2017 at 7:41 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 14, 2017 at 10:22 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - June 16, 2017 at 5:09 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 16, 2017 at 9:41 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 17, 2017 at 12:24 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 17, 2017 at 3:08 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 17, 2017 at 10:51 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 17, 2017 at 1:21 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 11:24 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 18, 2017 at 2:44 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Secular Elf - June 17, 2017 at 12:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 20, 2017 at 6:04 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Secular Elf - June 20, 2017 at 4:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 20, 2017 at 10:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 22, 2017 at 6:24 am
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 22, 2017 at 11:19 am
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 1:33 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 17, 2017 at 1:56 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 2:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 17, 2017 at 2:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 2:05 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 20, 2017 at 11:04 am
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 17, 2017 at 2:39 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 20, 2017 at 11:12 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 20, 2017 at 5:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 20, 2017 at 10:34 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 22, 2017 at 3:23 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 20, 2017 at 10:36 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 20, 2017 at 10:41 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 22, 2017 at 12:21 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Secular Elf - June 27, 2017 at 3:54 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 27, 2017 at 11:28 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 28, 2017 at 3:42 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - June 28, 2017 at 8:18 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 28, 2017 at 11:28 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 22, 2017 at 9:03 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 22, 2017 at 9:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 22, 2017 at 11:07 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 22, 2017 at 11:45 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 23, 2017 at 8:15 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 6:00 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 24, 2017 at 6:50 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 24, 2017 at 7:17 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 7:53 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 24, 2017 at 9:52 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 23, 2017 at 12:53 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 24, 2017 at 3:48 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 24, 2017 at 5:53 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 24, 2017 at 6:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by GUBU - June 24, 2017 at 7:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 6:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 7:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 10:08 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 24, 2017 at 10:10 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 10:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 10:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 26, 2017 at 6:57 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 26, 2017 at 12:58 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 26, 2017 at 3:32 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - June 26, 2017 at 7:19 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 26, 2017 at 10:18 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 26, 2017 at 10:47 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 26, 2017 at 11:52 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 27, 2017 at 8:31 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - June 27, 2017 at 10:02 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 27, 2017 at 11:18 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Wyrd of Gawd - July 3, 2017 at 4:16 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 11:51 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - July 3, 2017 at 5:55 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Wyrd of Gawd - July 3, 2017 at 10:18 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - June 26, 2017 at 1:13 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 26, 2017 at 3:30 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - June 27, 2017 at 12:34 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 1:05 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 27, 2017 at 2:10 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 3:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Secular Elf - June 27, 2017 at 4:24 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 4:03 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 5:36 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - June 27, 2017 at 11:28 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - June 27, 2017 at 11:44 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - June 27, 2017 at 11:50 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - June 27, 2017 at 11:59 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - June 28, 2017 at 9:52 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - June 28, 2017 at 2:26 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - June 28, 2017 at 2:34 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - June 28, 2017 at 3:07 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - June 28, 2017 at 3:22 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - June 28, 2017 at 3:42 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 2, 2017 at 12:27 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 11:17 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 2, 2017 at 6:06 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 3, 2017 at 2:14 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 3, 2017 at 3:38 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 5:45 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 3, 2017 at 6:16 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 6:54 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 3, 2017 at 7:06 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 10:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 7:57 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 10:47 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 11:13 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 11:34 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 11:43 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 3, 2017 at 11:50 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 3, 2017 at 11:52 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 4, 2017 at 12:07 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Wyrd of Gawd - July 4, 2017 at 2:12 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - July 4, 2017 at 4:35 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 7:37 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 4, 2017 at 6:13 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 4, 2017 at 6:52 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 4, 2017 at 1:31 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 4, 2017 at 4:22 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 4, 2017 at 4:54 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 7:09 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 4, 2017 at 7:11 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 1:53 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 3:39 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by JackRussell - July 4, 2017 at 4:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 4, 2017 at 4:37 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 6, 2017 at 8:15 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 6, 2017 at 8:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 6, 2017 at 10:00 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 6, 2017 at 10:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 6, 2017 at 11:21 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 7, 2017 at 7:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 7, 2017 at 9:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 7, 2017 at 7:59 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 7, 2017 at 8:56 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 7, 2017 at 10:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 7, 2017 at 11:12 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 7, 2017 at 10:13 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 7, 2017 at 11:19 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 8, 2017 at 1:48 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 8, 2017 at 12:48 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 8, 2017 at 2:08 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - July 8, 2017 at 4:10 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 8, 2017 at 9:24 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - July 9, 2017 at 4:56 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 9, 2017 at 6:41 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 9, 2017 at 9:39 am
RE: The First Century Void - by GUBU - July 9, 2017 at 1:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - July 10, 2017 at 11:03 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 10, 2017 at 12:25 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by GUBU - July 10, 2017 at 3:08 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 10, 2017 at 11:16 am
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - July 8, 2017 at 9:07 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 10, 2017 at 11:15 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - July 10, 2017 at 11:50 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 10, 2017 at 12:15 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 10, 2017 at 12:57 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - July 10, 2017 at 12:00 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 10, 2017 at 11:53 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 10, 2017 at 12:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 10, 2017 at 12:16 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 10, 2017 at 12:55 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - July 10, 2017 at 6:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 10, 2017 at 7:42 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 12, 2017 at 8:03 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 13, 2017 at 9:36 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 13, 2017 at 9:40 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 20, 2017 at 1:20 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 12:30 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 25, 2017 at 1:45 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 5:49 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 7:43 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Succubus - July 25, 2017 at 11:14 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 3:33 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 4:16 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 25, 2017 at 4:21 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by GUBU - July 25, 2017 at 4:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 4:39 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 4:56 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 5:07 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 5:35 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 25, 2017 at 6:30 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 6:54 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - July 25, 2017 at 7:18 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - July 25, 2017 at 7:49 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 26, 2017 at 11:08 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - July 26, 2017 at 11:17 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - July 26, 2017 at 11:14 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - August 3, 2017 at 9:53 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 7, 2017 at 8:32 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - August 7, 2017 at 11:01 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - August 8, 2017 at 8:32 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 8, 2017 at 9:26 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Dropship - August 8, 2017 at 11:19 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - August 8, 2017 at 11:16 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - August 8, 2017 at 12:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - August 8, 2017 at 12:20 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 9, 2017 at 7:22 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - August 10, 2017 at 3:06 am
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 10, 2017 at 9:49 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - August 9, 2017 at 1:57 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 9, 2017 at 3:25 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - August 12, 2017 at 11:06 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Fake Messiah - August 12, 2017 at 1:48 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - August 12, 2017 at 2:46 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - August 12, 2017 at 3:16 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - August 12, 2017 at 4:23 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - August 12, 2017 at 5:04 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 6, 2017 at 2:19 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by RoadRunner79 - September 6, 2017 at 9:09 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 6, 2017 at 10:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 7, 2017 at 4:53 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - September 6, 2017 at 10:22 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 6, 2017 at 10:33 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 7, 2017 at 1:45 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - September 7, 2017 at 2:12 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 7, 2017 at 2:28 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - September 7, 2017 at 2:30 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 7, 2017 at 2:51 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Amarok - September 7, 2017 at 7:11 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Minimalist - September 7, 2017 at 8:37 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by vorlon13 - September 7, 2017 at 9:15 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 8, 2017 at 4:14 am
RE: The First Century Void - by The Grand Nudger - September 8, 2017 at 9:08 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 8, 2017 at 9:51 am
RE: The First Century Void - by Crossless2.0 - September 8, 2017 at 2:06 pm
RE: The First Century Void - by Cyberman - September 9, 2017 at 5:59 am

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