(January 21, 2011 at 11:44 am)dqualk Wrote:You sound like you've swallowed an Alvin Plantinga special. The xtian god is an incoherent being and therefore irrational. Belief in a god (deism for example) isn't irrational, just highly, highly etc etc improbable.Quote: I was pointing out that your arguments have disappeared do far up your own theist dark passage, that you cannot see anything else. Then have the cheek to turn round and accuse me of going around blindly. Priceless fella.
You and others keep saying things like this but you do not point out what it is that I don't see. And if you do get around to pointing it out you say that I cannot see that God is irrational. Or that it is a huge problem that there is no conclusive evidence for God. To which I reply and most all scholars agree that the idea of God is not irrational, it is suprarational, and that there is not conclusive evidence for properly basic beliefs. If you want to argue that you do not believe that believeing in God can be properly basic, that is find, but I for one believe that it can be. It flows naturally from the properly basic belief in intrinsic value, right and wrong, truth etc. Others have postulated a God or something similar without revealed religion, like Plato and Aristotle.
If you are saying I cannot see that there are evil people in the Catholic Church, then you are lying to yourself, because I have repeatedly comndemed the idiots who do evil things like molest or cover up evil. However, I make an appeal to reason, that blaming all Catholics for the actions of a few is silly. Or saying the Church as a whole is evil is silly. There are many heroes within the Church, and the Church's teachings and Canon Law are good with regards to molestation and cover ups.
Why is the xtian god irrational? Becuase his attributes are logcial contradictory (and they are well surveyed and understood). As yet their xtian refutations amount to ah but we don't really understand god, and are extremely weak.
There are also a set of powerful inductive arguments (hiddeness of god, mind-brain connection, religious confusion, success of natural science, the problem of innocent suffering and evil; to which the bluster of the FWD has not been totally successful), which make atheism far more likely. Whether you think they amount to a refutation will depend on your view of each of the premises and arguments.
There are many heros and monsters in all walks of life, it proves nothing about Catholicism nor any other organisation. I wonder if the little boys and girls who were raped, (which was then covered up by the institution you seem to want to promote) are warmed by your condemnation or those of the pope.
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence"...Doug McLeod.