RE: Why does science always upstage God?
January 5, 2018 at 12:25 am
(This post was last modified: January 5, 2018 at 1:04 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 4, 2018 at 9:53 pm)Whateverist Wrote: I have no reason to doubt you have the history right (nor am I possessed of enough fucks one way or another to check for myself). But I still think there is room for self-identified Catholics and even the institution as a whole to make their way to an allegorical understanding of the resurrection and everything else. In the end, those who remain religious as well as well educated, open and reflective will realize that all of it is allegorical. I'm sure there are Catholic clergy now who hold their faith in that way. They just have no scruples about talking down to those who need to hear them in literal fairy tales .Of course some catholics -do- make their way to such an understanding, but not on account of any room for it in catholicism's own official doctrine. They insist that the cracker and wine are really transformed by muttered verse.
They could always schism...again, I suppose.
(January 4, 2018 at 11:18 pm)Haipule Wrote: I am a literalist because allegory is asinine! That started in the church by a clown named Origen. It leads to opinions and never ending more opinions and not understanding.No, it didn't. Origen is part of the later second century ruckus, not the originator of allegorical interpretations within or without any christian "church". The rabbinic tradition had already established two seperate allegorical schools of thought which predated any silly christianism (by centuries) - and it was one of the schools, particularly, that influenced that later "christian jews" and earlier jewy jews who believed in jesus as an archangel.
The alexandrian school is strongly represented in early christianity (the tradition from which Origen would ultimately arise, no less..as well as Clement, Eusebius, and Augustine of Hippo. It even brought us the ontological argument).
The palestinian is more well represented in islam (amusingly enough).
Both persist in current rabbinic traditions to this very day in their own right. Ask a rabbi how much allegory there is in the OT, it is their book, after all. Meanwhile, the same was certainly true of the earliest forms of christianity and the NT, by the continuing presence of alexandrian scholarship and Origens training therein (the whole reason he was ever anybody)...from which he drew his own personal theology even as he converted others to an emerging and increasingly literal orthodoxy.
He detested literal interpretations because they were as ignorant then as they are now, something which had been known for a long time already. -and yet here we are, 2018..literal nutters talking about how allegory is assanine leading only to opinion and no understanding. Well, if that's the case, it's time to give up jesus and christ and christianity altogether. It was not intended to be and it has never been anything more than allegory in the first place.
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