RE: Our role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums
May 8, 2018 at 1:59 pm
(This post was last modified: May 8, 2018 at 2:01 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
I would like to applaud SteveII for better expressing the difference between meeting personal needs/goals motivations and roles. Recently the larger culture, not just AF, the amount of cross-over between personal life, professional duties, and social roles has become so extreme that people find it nearly impossible keep them separate. Businesses fire executives for their private political contributions. Academic departments and student groups demand the resignations of professors who express opinions on their personal social media accounts. Senators openly impose “religious tests for office” by opposing the nominations of candidates with mainline religious convictions.
Generally, I consider this blurring of the line between public and private to be very bad for a free country. That is why I generally oppose commercial boycotts; I trade with the expectation of getting quality goods at a fair price regardless of the personal beliefs and private behavior of those from whom I buy. Similarly, I do not care what politicians do in their bedrooms so long as they strive to serve the public good. I could be wrong.
So I am intentionally using this debate to challenge my own personal feelings about this by adopting the stance that Christianity demands more from us, i.e. to “be not conformed unto this world”, and that being a “new creation” means that your whole being is transformed, not just adopting religious practices like going to church and praying. Secular atheists expect us to check our religion at that ballot box and bristle at the idea of Christians allowing their religious convictions to inform their political opinions, particularly in hot-button issues such as abortion and traditional marriage. They mock the idea of public officials calling for prayer in times of disaster. They also seem to feel we are free to practice our religion…but only inside our churches.
Is that even possible?
(On a side note, my taking this stance seems to offend the sensibilities of those outside the discussion. They seem to believe that someone cannot present and defend a position during a debate without being disingenuous or hypocritical.)
This is why (for debate purposes only) I am challenging the notion suggested by Catholic Lady that not everything a Christian does must bring glory to God, especially when I see Holy Scripture arguing otherwise:
“Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.” - 1 Corinthians 10:31.
“The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.” - Ecclesiastes 12:13
“If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God gives: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.” - First Peter 4:11 (my emphasis)
So also say the greatest Christian thinkers:
“Man seeks God in all his human acts inasmuch as in all these acts he seeks what will please, and satisfy, and fill up needs and desires, and crown his human quest with enduring joy. In this, man differs from all other earthly substances, minerals, plants, animals. For, while all these things are the products of divine goodness and exist to reflect and manifest that goodness, they do not seek to attain the infinite good subjectively; only man does that.” – Thomas Aquinas, Summa Part 2A
“Question 1: What is the chief and highest end of man? Answer: Man’s chief and highest end is to glorify God, and fully to enjoy him forever.” - Westminster Confession
Just to be clear, I am NOT saying that seemingly mundane activities are somehow unworthy. Nor must our work be explicitly Christian – like didactic “Christian” movies or “Christian” Rock. I say that even eating a brownie is not a neutral activity, nor is flying a kite, or arguing over which IPA is superior. To enjoy abundant life, in—and-of- itself, is to glorify God, and that can include savoring the blessings of good food and the sensual pleasures shared by husband and wife. These as opposed to gluttony and promiscuity. Nor must Christians limit their professional lives to pastoral work. Paul says that even a servant glorifies God in the performance of his duties:
“Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eye-service, as men-pleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him. .” – 1 Timothy 6:5-9
The clear message seems to be that the end of Man, how we glorify God, is through the right use and proper enjoyment of our life in accordance with our God-given nature as rational animals, everywhere and at all time - at home, in the marketplace, and the public square. How this plays out on AF is something that intrigues me.
Generally, I consider this blurring of the line between public and private to be very bad for a free country. That is why I generally oppose commercial boycotts; I trade with the expectation of getting quality goods at a fair price regardless of the personal beliefs and private behavior of those from whom I buy. Similarly, I do not care what politicians do in their bedrooms so long as they strive to serve the public good. I could be wrong.
So I am intentionally using this debate to challenge my own personal feelings about this by adopting the stance that Christianity demands more from us, i.e. to “be not conformed unto this world”, and that being a “new creation” means that your whole being is transformed, not just adopting religious practices like going to church and praying. Secular atheists expect us to check our religion at that ballot box and bristle at the idea of Christians allowing their religious convictions to inform their political opinions, particularly in hot-button issues such as abortion and traditional marriage. They mock the idea of public officials calling for prayer in times of disaster. They also seem to feel we are free to practice our religion…but only inside our churches.
Is that even possible?
(On a side note, my taking this stance seems to offend the sensibilities of those outside the discussion. They seem to believe that someone cannot present and defend a position during a debate without being disingenuous or hypocritical.)
This is why (for debate purposes only) I am challenging the notion suggested by Catholic Lady that not everything a Christian does must bring glory to God, especially when I see Holy Scripture arguing otherwise:
“Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.” - 1 Corinthians 10:31.
“The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.” - Ecclesiastes 12:13
“If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God gives: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.” - First Peter 4:11 (my emphasis)
So also say the greatest Christian thinkers:
“Man seeks God in all his human acts inasmuch as in all these acts he seeks what will please, and satisfy, and fill up needs and desires, and crown his human quest with enduring joy. In this, man differs from all other earthly substances, minerals, plants, animals. For, while all these things are the products of divine goodness and exist to reflect and manifest that goodness, they do not seek to attain the infinite good subjectively; only man does that.” – Thomas Aquinas, Summa Part 2A
“Question 1: What is the chief and highest end of man? Answer: Man’s chief and highest end is to glorify God, and fully to enjoy him forever.” - Westminster Confession
Just to be clear, I am NOT saying that seemingly mundane activities are somehow unworthy. Nor must our work be explicitly Christian – like didactic “Christian” movies or “Christian” Rock. I say that even eating a brownie is not a neutral activity, nor is flying a kite, or arguing over which IPA is superior. To enjoy abundant life, in—and-of- itself, is to glorify God, and that can include savoring the blessings of good food and the sensual pleasures shared by husband and wife. These as opposed to gluttony and promiscuity. Nor must Christians limit their professional lives to pastoral work. Paul says that even a servant glorifies God in the performance of his duties:
“Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eye-service, as men-pleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him. .” – 1 Timothy 6:5-9
The clear message seems to be that the end of Man, how we glorify God, is through the right use and proper enjoyment of our life in accordance with our God-given nature as rational animals, everywhere and at all time - at home, in the marketplace, and the public square. How this plays out on AF is something that intrigues me.
