RE: Our role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums
May 14, 2018 at 12:29 pm
(This post was last modified: May 14, 2018 at 12:30 pm by SteveII.)
QUESTION: Is there anything that can be demonstrated, said, argued, proved, .............. that would change your belief in your god?
I don't think so. There are two sides of this coin. The first is what kind of new information is possible and how would it relate to the Christian belief. The second is what supports the belief now that would have to be undermined.
In answer to the first side of the coin (what kinds of information could we anticipate) and using the exact terms in the question:
1. Demonstrated:
3. Proved: There are two kinds of proofs that apply here--physical and metaphysical. (1) addressed the former and (2) addressed the latter.
The second side of the coin (what supports the belief that would need to be undermined):
4. Reliability of the NT. Like I have also said many times, there are no credible, evidenced, theories that address all (or even a majority) of the data points we have about the NT. There is a difference between not believing the NT (as most of the people here do not) and having a more plausible theory that explains the facts we know. It would take the latter to begin to undermine this cornerstone of Christianity.
5. Personal Experience. The new information would have to be significant in order to get any Christian, with a real faith journey behind him/her, to admit that their experiences and those around them, who's personal testimony they believe, are illusory.
6. The Message of Jesus is so relevant to all kinds of aspects of human life. As a theory of 'the human condition', it is not only complete, but has been been applicable for 2000 years. There has been no newer, more-likely-to be-true psychological theories that undermine it. That is truly amazing from a first century carpenter and a bunch of fishermen.
7. Natural theology: There are several concepts about first cause, fine tuning, consciousness, and morality that would have to take a hit to undermine my belief in God.
As you see, belief in God is multifaceted and is built on a cumulative group of reasons/evidence. The more you understand, as a whole big picture: the natural world, history, theology, psychology, relationships, and our experiences and the experiences of those around us, the task of undermining to the point of rejecting that belief is not a real possibility.
I don't think so. There are two sides of this coin. The first is what kind of new information is possible and how would it relate to the Christian belief. The second is what supports the belief now that would have to be undermined.
In answer to the first side of the coin (what kinds of information could we anticipate) and using the exact terms in the question:
1. Demonstrated:
- Scientifically - As I have pointed out time and time again, you have to distinguish between the natural world and the supernatural world. Anything that would be 'demonstrated' from the natural world does not have much impact on what the supernatural world might be. I might modify individual views if science comes up with something that is contrary to the view I hold.
- Historically - Someone would have to come up NEW period evidence that convincingly backs an alternate theory of why we have the NT.
- Other beliefs - Some other belief system has thorough and incontrovertible evidence that it is true as well as having convincing answers for life's most difficult question and which has concepts that better reflect the reality we live in. I have surveyed all other religions and there are no candidates that come close to matching that of Christianity in these areas.
3. Proved: There are two kinds of proofs that apply here--physical and metaphysical. (1) addressed the former and (2) addressed the latter.
The second side of the coin (what supports the belief that would need to be undermined):
4. Reliability of the NT. Like I have also said many times, there are no credible, evidenced, theories that address all (or even a majority) of the data points we have about the NT. There is a difference between not believing the NT (as most of the people here do not) and having a more plausible theory that explains the facts we know. It would take the latter to begin to undermine this cornerstone of Christianity.
5. Personal Experience. The new information would have to be significant in order to get any Christian, with a real faith journey behind him/her, to admit that their experiences and those around them, who's personal testimony they believe, are illusory.
6. The Message of Jesus is so relevant to all kinds of aspects of human life. As a theory of 'the human condition', it is not only complete, but has been been applicable for 2000 years. There has been no newer, more-likely-to be-true psychological theories that undermine it. That is truly amazing from a first century carpenter and a bunch of fishermen.
7. Natural theology: There are several concepts about first cause, fine tuning, consciousness, and morality that would have to take a hit to undermine my belief in God.
As you see, belief in God is multifaceted and is built on a cumulative group of reasons/evidence. The more you understand, as a whole big picture: the natural world, history, theology, psychology, relationships, and our experiences and the experiences of those around us, the task of undermining to the point of rejecting that belief is not a real possibility.
