(December 11, 2019 at 5:16 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:(December 11, 2019 at 3:58 pm)maxolla Wrote: The historical Jesus is pretty well documented. I have not heard of any serious historians that refute the existence of Jesus but I’m sure they exist. Along with the historical writings of the individuals you mentioned are the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The writings of these men have been verified by those contemporary historians. No where have I found controversy over his existence by historians of the period. That being said, historical data can always be called into question no matter the reputation of the historian.
As for conflating the story of Jesus with King Arthur and Robin Hood...These are stories written hundreds of years after the events depicted and were known at the time as fictional characters. Far less writings exist on, say king Arthur and it is widely known that he was a fictional character. In short, your argument is based on a blatant false equivalence.
Thanks
Max
Where is the documentation for an historical Jesus? Historians and theologians have been looking for this for centuries. Failing to find it, they've made the same mistake you're making - wishful thinking.
But the individuals I mentioned were not contemporaries of Jesus, which is what I asked you to provide. You can't point to authors I said were not contemporaneous with Jesus and cite them as contemporaries. It's a brute fact that there are NO writings of Jesus until well after his purported death. You'd think that a wandering preacher who performed miracles, drew crowds of thousands, and got into trouble with the authorities would have gotten some sort of mention in official channels. There's nothing. Absolutely nothing.
When I mentioned Arthur and Robin Hood, it wasn't a conflation, it was a comparison. Yes, it's probably true that both of them started out as folklore, but I don't think that strengths your argument. The idea is that a imaginary person is written about to the point where people come to accept that person as having an historical basis.
Boru
No Brian; Jesus was raised to God.
That's why there is no evidence of his dead body, his grave or remains:
Quote:Sura 4, The Quran:
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh
( 157 ) And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
( 158 ) Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.
I always thought that raising Jesus to God meant literally that he died. But if I took the verse literally, and checked the controversy about his non-existing remains, then I will say what was said a long time ago by Muslim scholars: Jesus was raised to God in heaven.
Hard to believe but this is what the verse suggests.
I'm literally shocked.