(December 11, 2019 at 5:57 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote:(December 11, 2019 at 5:28 pm)maxolla Wrote: Interesting points. Never heard of Eleazar ben Simon before now.Really? I was going to list a bucket of Messiah figures from the period, but decided to leave it at just one for now. The Levant at the time was a hotbed of wandering Jewish Rabbi's. They were ten-a-penny.
(December 11, 2019 at 5:28 pm)maxolla Wrote: Arguing the existence of historical figures is not something I have the time for.Yet you are here arguing for the historicity of jesus because somehow you DO have time for that load of crap.
(December 11, 2019 at 5:28 pm)maxolla Wrote: The existence of, for instance Muhammad, Gandhi, as well as Jesus and his disciples is too well documented to refute.Mo and the handhi bhendhi ghandi are documented figures. Jesus is not.
(December 11, 2019 at 5:28 pm)maxolla Wrote: Of course proving a negative is almost impossible in the first place.Sorry, no dodging allowed. He who makes an affirmative claim bears the burden of proof for said claim. I actually making an affirmative claim. I do not believe in any god/gods, nor any prophets, messiahs, jesuses, or any of it. Thgus I bear the burden of proof for that affirmative claim. What evidence have I? Well, I do not believe in any god/gods, nor any prophets, messiahs, jesuses, or any of it. My burden is met in full. Now how about YOUR burden of proof for YOUR claims?
(December 11, 2019 at 5:28 pm)maxolla Wrote: That’s what I don’t get about atheism. I understand agnosticism in that it claims to not know.That is not atheism. Atheism claims to NOT believe in any god. I am perfectly comfortable to agree that it is possible that somehow there MIGHT be a god, but nobody has yet demonstrated that there IS a god, despite thousands of claimed gods. Not a single one has been demonstrated to exist ever. Not once in the entirety of human history.
My question is to the atheist, how do you know there is know God?
Look at your own god. If you could demonstrate it to be real, then I would accept the evidence. But you cannot. Because you have none.
(December 11, 2019 at 5:35 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: A better way to look at the whole thing is this : Muhammad seemed to come up with a very sensible story putting every prophet in his place, all the elements of christian belief present in the Qur'an point to the fact that you have to be an established scholar to fabricate the Islamic holy book.
Add that to the fact that there was no Arabic translation of the Bible in the time of Muhammmad.
You do know that it was, at that time, a largely orally transmitted superstition, right? Are you suggesting that in the time of Mo, people never told stories? Really?
Ask yourself when was the koran first written.
Sorry, no dodging allowed. He who makes an affirmative claim bears the burden of proof for said claim. I actually making an affirmative claim. I do not believe in any god/gods, nor any prophets, messiahs, jesuses, or any of it. Thgus I bear the burden of proof for that affirmative claim. What evidence have I? Well, I do not believe in any god/gods, nor any prophets, messiahs, jesuses, or any of it. My burden is met in full. Now how about YOUR burden of proof for YOUR claims?
My proof is I believe that Jesus existed and exists based on the evidence I have seen.