(December 30, 2019 at 3:21 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:(December 30, 2019 at 2:26 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: How, exactly, did you determine that?
I didn't determine anything, I'm just reminding you of what the word "god" usually means. It usually means an all-powerful being, all-powerful automatically means : doesn't need anything.
(December 30, 2019 at 2:26 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Who said this world is the product of nothing? Not me. What would convince me of tuning you ask? Evidence of a tuner, and tuning, lol. You have neither. You’re simply looking around at reality and saying, “wow!”. That’s not evidence or an argument. Why am I convinced cars are designed, Klorophyll? Because, there exists evidence of engineers, and engineering; design plans and the folks who wrote them, and evidence of how they wrote them; because I can walk into an automobile manufacturing company and watch manufacturing employees putting cars together using various parts; because when my car breaks, I can bring it to the repair shop and watch the auto repair guy diagnose and replace the broken part. You have no such evidence for tuning, or a tuner; for a designer or design. No mechanism; no nothing.
Okay. So if there was no way for you to walk into an automobile manufacturing company (let's suppose the latter is in some distant galaxy, casually sending us cars by some mysterious means science didn't discover yet) you would still be certain cars must be designed, right?
(December 30, 2019 at 2:26 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I agree that something can’t come from nothing, but probably not for the same reasons as you.
So we're left with two options then : infinite regress or a necessary first cause. Disagree?
A mechanical device is obviously designed, a biological one, especially one as flawed as humans, not so much.
Even if there was a first cause, it doesn’t mean it was a god or your god. It doesn’t even necessarily denote an intelligence.
Everything we see in nature and the lab indicates a natural order to things that came about over billions of years, despite what books of myth say.
Dying to live, living to die.