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Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims
RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims
(June 7, 2021 at 7:38 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:
(June 7, 2021 at 7:16 pm)Helios Wrote: I specifically said type, not number. Please actually read what I write.

Interesting, my search tool failed to find the word "type" in your comment. But it did find Number; Less developed; and Development as accumulation. Are these not the phrases you used?

Quote:Yes, it is arbitrary there is no objective reason to value a put significance on fertilization as opposed to anything else. Simply saying "but a new organism " is no more significant than some else saying " but two people fucked " or "it now has eyes" you're simply attributing significance to it.

There's no need to ascribe value to fertilization; that is beginning of a new organism whether you value it or not (and I know you do not). Fertilization also marks the beginning of a pregnancy (I know, pregnancy is so irrelevant to abortion but humor me lol).

Quote:Nope, it's not avoiding it's simply not wasting time on irrelevant points or getting dragged down in pointless rabbit holes. That's the only thing I have demonstrated and there is nothing contradictory about it. Pro-choice is reasonable. 

Saying that fertilization and development (a pregnancy) are irrelevant to abortion, is like saying that preparation of food is irrelevant to cooking. Pro-choice cannot be reasonable if it maintains such an unreasonable position.

Sorry, late to the party in this convo, but I think Helios' point is that fertilization is one milestone in a series of milestones. It is preceded (and succeeded) by a number of necessary milestones which eventually ends up in an alive and birthed human.

You could wind the clock back to when the couple first locked eyes at the bar: if that never happened it would be just as detrimental to the child being born as would an abortion. I think we tend to put emphasis on fertilization (as humans) because that's the point when "the deed is done" from a human perspective. No more human work is (necessarily) required beyond that point. Nature takes care of the rest.

Again, sorry if this point was made earlier and I missed it, but I always saw fertilization --not as arbitrary-- but at least not "extra special" as some pro-lifers tend to see it. As far as the organism is concerned it's one thing (among many) which must happen for the organism to eventually be born.
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RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by vulcanlogician - June 7, 2021 at 7:57 pm

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