RE: If people were 100% rational, would the world be better?
August 9, 2021 at 7:59 pm
(This post was last modified: August 9, 2021 at 8:17 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Do you define objectivity as what I value?
If not, it's fair to say that you're aware of why whatever some other guy values isn't objectivity, but descriptive subjectivity. This applies to all subjects, even to a god. In my experience, this is why believers like yourself make poor apologists and advocates. We can see that you don't believe in the strength of your own statements by their immediate rejection in coequal formulations.
In mere reality, you might find that your god is said to value things that humans value or see value in. He gets his values from us. Nowhere is this more readily apparent and right on the surface than n abrahamic religions. Three cultures which each cropped up to say that the last was wrong about a god, and that god just so happened to be alot like them - not the other guiys, and value things as they do, rather than the other guys.
-but good luck working any of that out if you stumble on what objectivity means, and what it doesn't.
Why? Why do you believe that this must be true of atheism or atheists? The only value absent in an atheists worldview or in a world with no god, is god-value.
I don't value god-value, so it's no loss of value to me. Frankly, I think that your religion is value destroying - but lets try an experiement.
You're forced to admit, under a god-value worldview, that there can be no objective value to life. If life were of value to god it would be valuable, and if it weren't, it wouldn't be. Had you ever considered your own objection, or was it something you intuitively felt applied to atheists, when, in fact, accurately describes your own view?
If not, it's fair to say that you're aware of why whatever some other guy values isn't objectivity, but descriptive subjectivity. This applies to all subjects, even to a god. In my experience, this is why believers like yourself make poor apologists and advocates. We can see that you don't believe in the strength of your own statements by their immediate rejection in coequal formulations.
In mere reality, you might find that your god is said to value things that humans value or see value in. He gets his values from us. Nowhere is this more readily apparent and right on the surface than n abrahamic religions. Three cultures which each cropped up to say that the last was wrong about a god, and that god just so happened to be alot like them - not the other guiys, and value things as they do, rather than the other guys.
-but good luck working any of that out if you stumble on what objectivity means, and what it doesn't.
(August 9, 2021 at 5:00 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: You're free of course to create your own subjective meaning. You're forced to admit, however, that under an atheistic worldview, there can't be any objective value to life.
Why? Why do you believe that this must be true of atheism or atheists? The only value absent in an atheists worldview or in a world with no god, is god-value.
I don't value god-value, so it's no loss of value to me. Frankly, I think that your religion is value destroying - but lets try an experiement.
You're forced to admit, under a god-value worldview, that there can be no objective value to life. If life were of value to god it would be valuable, and if it weren't, it wouldn't be. Had you ever considered your own objection, or was it something you intuitively felt applied to atheists, when, in fact, accurately describes your own view?
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