If people were 100% rational, would the world be better?

[LadyForCamus]

We don’t exist for any reason; that is to say not in a colloquial sense. There are causes for our existence, ofc; a “how.” But not a reason, or a “why.” At least I’ve yet to see a demonstration for that proposition. Do I have reasons for continuing forward with the life that I already have in this moment in the span of time? Sure, but those reasons are contingent upon other lives. I have two young children, a husband, and living parents. But preventing the harm that my death would cause those people is not necessarily a comment on the value of life, or let’s say conscious life, in a larger sense as a property or biological fact of the world. Rationally speaking, why should our ability to be aware of our own eventual annihilation count as a sound reason to avoid or delay it?

Are those rational cases for life, then?  The question of why we exist and whether or not we have rational reasons to want to live or to keep living, are not the same question.

I think they’re rational cases for an obligation to live, but not necessarily cases for wanting to live, though I’m sure they are for some people. 

  If intrinsic meaning were the only reason a person had for living, and they believed they didn't have that meaning, and they weren;t mistaken in that belief as expressed, they sound like they might be under significant cognitive pressure.

I don’t disagree with that, but aren’t we all under a significant amount of cognitive pressure? How would that fact alter the soundness of any reasoning toward preferring death over life?

 I would onsider it imprudent to then say "well, kill yourself and/or die that's the only rational thing to do.... or even "well, sounds like killing yourself might be rational, wishing that you were dead might be rational.""  We tend to provide people with feelings of abject worthlessness with care, not acceptance of the claim which has them so disaffected.

Sure, and I’m certainly not implying that people should start recommending suicide to others. But if a person felt the way you described above, what would be irrational about them wanting or preferring to stop living? What if the set of non-intrinsic reasons is zero? Do we just say “if you can’t think of a convincing reason to want to live, there must be something wrong with you”? What’s the justification for that?

Well, so what? Why am I obligated to participate in experience in order to be perceived as rational? Choosing between life and death isn’t choosing between eternal experience and no experience, after all. I was thrust into an experiential existence without my consent, and I don’t even get to keep it. That, coupled with my awareness that every emotion, thought and pleasure I have is rooted in nothing more than a blind, biological drive to reproduce leads me to regard conscious experience with growing dispassion, or perhaps ‘clinical detachment’ is more accurate. I suppose I just find the whole business of finite conscious experience rather silly and trying. If the inevitable is to end up right back where I started; not existing; if there’s no meaningful distinction between being born, living, and dying, and having never been born at all; then maybe I simply don’t want to be bothered marching forward with the business of it. I’m not depressed (I don’t think) or miserable, or suffering. I just can’t think of many good philosophical reasons for actively living. Camus said we should “revolt” against and in spite of the absurd; that that was the most reasonable choice; and I used to agree with him. But now I’m not so sure.

Why is it a bad thing that you don't get to keep it - that you bolded this specifically as a negative qualifier? if it has no intrinsic meaning or value, or in fact no rational basis for your preference whatsoever?

Because if I got to keep it I would want it, you see? I prefer existence over non-existence, but those aren’t my choices, are they? My choices are “not exist” or “exist for a little while and then not exist.” They’re essentially the same.

You just wake up every day feeling that way?

As an aside, sorry to you guys for leading this discussion into a turn toward the personal. If I get annoying just tell me to shut up and quit whining. I won’t take offense. 😛

I'm not arguing your perception, it is what it is, just wondering what the bar for rational reasons is supposed to be if none of the things you mentioned or can even think of would qualify.  If someone handed me chocolate covered crickets and I didn't want them - and then they said I couldn't keep them - I'd say thanks, take em back asap.

 
For me, it’s more like someone handing me something precious and saying, “you can either have it for a couple of minutes but you have to give it right back, or you could just not take it at all and avoid the dread and the heartache.”