(September 8, 2021 at 1:40 pm)Angrboda Wrote:(September 7, 2021 at 10:52 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: God's existence is vastly more probable than not given the perceived order in the universe. Upon seeing a car engine, you immediately think of how skillful its designers must be, it's asinine to suggest it was put together without the existence of some intention. In the case of the universe, the analogy is valid, and the fact that complex entities evolved through time doesn't invalidate it, because the very process of evolution could be (is?) part of a divine intention. The basic argument then is that a personal, intentional agent behind the perceived order (regarding the arrangement of matter AND the physical laws) explains the universe's orderly nature better than a non-personal cause. This can be formulated better using bayesian-type arguments, by showing that the probability of order arising under a godless universe is vastly smaller than its counterpart (under theism), but this clearly requires some additional homework.
In order for God's existence to be a more probable explanation for the order in the universe than chance, there needs to be more order in the universe than one would expect there to be by chance. How are you measuring the amount of order in the universe? I'll need some citations to the effect that there is more order than could be expected by chance, otherwise your claims are bullshit.
(September 8, 2021 at 7:15 am)no one Wrote: Clowns are funny on purpose.
That’s an outstandingly good point. If a freight train derails by chance and spills its cargo of gizmos in a particular pattern, there’s no way to differentiate that pattern from the same pattern deliberately laid out by a passerby. Universe all same - we see order, but there’s no way to tell if that order is the result undirected trial and error or the result of the Great Universal Gizmo Pattern Maker.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson