RE: Atheism and the existence of peanut butter
September 16, 2021 at 4:02 pm
(This post was last modified: September 16, 2021 at 4:40 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(September 16, 2021 at 2:44 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:Sounds like a no. Semantics won't help, I'll immediately ask you about perfection being the absence of flaws and..given the above, you'll immediately reverse your position on the matter. We can save ourselves the trouble.(September 14, 2021 at 11:51 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: We're a hyper social species, endowed with a great many adaptations to that effect..though...to be fair to all other life, none of that makes us particularly benevolent - and it causes some pretty serious issues between groups, too.
I want to ask, though, are you willing to account for all of humanities attributes when you propose benevolence through design? We have flaws too..deep flaws. Does this suggest the designer is flawed in the way that having some amount of benevolence would suggest the designer is benevolent? We're flawed, and we can't have gotten what our creator didn't have to give..correct?
Well, there is a problem here. Flawness is the absence/lack of perfectness, not a character per se, we can't apply the same inference on a negative concept.
Quote:Furthermore, there is no logical problem with a perfect being creating imperfect creatures. Even if one makes the very strong (and wrong) assumption that a perfect being must create the best of all possible worlds, it can still be imperfect beings enjoying perfect conditions.
Then it isn't actually a rule, as you asserted, that we can only get what our creator has to give - and even you don't believe as much. Our proposed creator has perfection..but we don't, and our proposed creator has no flaws...but we do. In fact, you believe that we can get things our creator doesn't have.
How does this fit with your belief that our claimed benevolence is evidence of a benevolent god? Give-get.
How does it fit into your belief that nature cannot be the agent of human benevolence? Has-hasn't.
I'm sympathetic, here. I don't think that a god is responsible for mans natural state anymore than you do. Like I said...the term you're looking for is genetics. Then again, I don't assert discardable non-rules which would make a god responsible for mans state. If there's a good argument for the god you believe in, that obviously wasn't it, huh? I think the bar for a discussion about these things has to be that you believe it, but..there, you don't even believe your own assertions. Going forward, could you put in the effort to present only those arguments and inferences and rules which you, at the very least, find compelling? I almost certainly won't..but then we'll be talking about what you actually do believe.
What I think is fascinating about this stuff, is that a believer like yourself will tank their own god concept for attributes that aren't even important to them. It's not important to you that god played in the mud and here we are - a product of what that god had to give. Never was, never will be. That's not god-making for you or for me. If every human being on earth used their assumed benevolence to stop hating on this or that person..you'd say "nuh uh, that benevolence....not from god - god hates that shit."
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