(September 18, 2021 at 4:57 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:(September 16, 2021 at 9:59 pm)polymath257 Wrote: And my claim is that this is impossible. Causes happen *within* the universe. that means the universe as a whole is uncaused.
You are simply begging the question. You can't just assert that the universe is uncaused, you should prove that it's eternal, for example.
If the universe is not eternal, then there has to be some cause or reason for its coming into being. I don't know what's your stance on the principle of sufficient reason. Basically, the universe needs a reason for its existence, like any other contingent entity or object. There are many philosophers who don't accept the PSR, though.
(September 16, 2021 at 9:59 pm)polymath257 Wrote: Again, you just state it cannot happen. But if an infinite amount of time has already elapsed at any point in time (which is what happens if there is no beginning), then your claim fails.
An infinite amount of time CANNOT elapse, otherwise it would be finite. QED.
(September 16, 2021 at 9:59 pm)polymath257 Wrote: And I agree. But that doens't mean non-classical logics don't exist and cannot be useful.
Sure. There might be other kinds of logic that proved to be useful. But if classical logic describes the workings of our world accurately enough, we don't need more.
Can God make a rock so big that he cannot lift it?