(October 25, 2021 at 7:00 pm)polymath257 Wrote:(October 25, 2021 at 5:10 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: The Luminiferous Aether was a reasonable hypothesis in 1690. It was too bad no-one actually tested it until the Michelson-Morley experiment in 1887.
Actually, it was a reasonable hypothesis when Maxwell gave his equations in 1861-2. The idea that a wave needed a material to travel through was not an unreasonable one.
I have a physics textbook from the 1880's that describes the aether as the most substantiated idea at the time. And that is even a correct statement.
That is one reason the Michelson-Morley experiment caught everyone off guard.
(October 25, 2021 at 5:16 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It was a hypothesis, but not a reasonable one. The mm experiment fully closed the door on the idea, which was important because it had been resistant to every piece of evidence (which was every piece of evidence..literally) which had come before it. Just using the dates provided, everything required to disprove the hypothesis was known by 1772 (at the latest)...and that it lasted a further century is a demonstration of exactly what I'm mentioning. In that century (or more), it didn't spin off productive research, it did the opposite of that trying to protect itself.
I'm sympathetic (I think..most of us are sympathetic) to the idea that even when we lose we're winning (when it comes to investigating the universe)...but the la hypothesis-then-theory was never one of those instances.
I think that is a pretty bad misunderstanding of the history. Relatively minor adjustments were required for first order null results. it was the second order results, started by the MM experiment, that ultimately did in the theory of aether. Also, the fact that Maxwell's equations and Newton's equations didn't play well together. The resolution of this by Einstein, Poincare, and others is part of the reason for the dismissal of the LA. Saying it was obvious by 1772 is rather silly since Maxwell's equations were seen as supporting the theory.
Probably way way off topic, seeing as I last did physics in year ten. Something completely ridiculous has stuck in my mind. Our Physics book had a whole chapter devote to The Phlogiston theory. I never received a satisfactory answer to my simple question of "why is this in our Physics book?"
I understand it's not like algebra, even though I've never actually been there. Below an explanation for those of you who did not have the benefit of a catholic education (If you'll excuse the expression)
"The phlogiston theory is a superseded scientific theory that postulated the existence of a fire-like element called phlogiston (/flɒˈdʒɪstən, floʊ-, -ɒn/)[1][2] contained within combustible bodies and released during combustion. The name comes from the Ancient Greek φλογιστόν phlogistón (burning up), from φλόξ phlóx (flame). The idea was first proposed in 1667 by Johann Joachim Becher and later put together more formally by Georg Ernst Stahl. Phlogiston theory attempted to explain chemical processes such as combustion and rusting, now collectively known as oxidation, was challenged by the concomitant weight increase, and was abandoned before the end of the 18th century following experiments by Antoine Lavoisier and others. Phlogiston theory led to experiments which ultimately concluded with the discovery of ."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phlogiston_theory