RE: Atheism and the existence of peanut butter
March 30, 2022 at 6:26 pm
(This post was last modified: March 30, 2022 at 6:34 pm by Simon Moon.)
(February 26, 2022 at 8:07 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:(February 26, 2022 at 7:57 pm)Foxaire Wrote: By all empirical logic, god does not exist.
"Empirical logic" can only inform us about stuff inside the empirical world, but doesn't apply to the creator of the empirical world..
Question begging.
Please provide demonstrable and falsifiable evidence that there is something beyond the "empirical world". And no, your flawed thinking: "it sure looks designed to me", is not evidence.
(February 26, 2022 at 7:57 pm)Foxaire Wrote: First, prove the god exists.
Quote:As I said in the other thread:
I have the perceptual experience of an external world, therefore I posit the existence of an external world.
There appears to be other people than myself, therefore it's reasonable to posit the existence of other people.
There appears to be design, therefore it's reasonable to posit a designer.
Anyone who disputes the fact that our perceptual experience of order in nature strongly point to a deisgner of the world is either dishonest or denying their senses.
The same flawed thinking you are guilty of above, "it appears to be designed, therefore it must be", is the same thinking that lead people to believe: famines, lightening, earthquakes and floods were due to gods, because they certainly did appear to be.
"Appearance" of design:
Here's the problem with your thinking.
We all perceive an what appears to be an external world.
We all perceive with what appears to be the existence of other minds.
It is what we are presented with. The best thing we can do, pragmatically speaking, is to accept those things exist. Either that, or we may end up walking into a busy street, or pissing off the wrong person.
But even if we accept that some things may "appear" designed, that does not mean they are.
Do you really think the vast majority of geologists and archeologists actually believe the previous images of the "appearance" of design, actually believe those rock formations are actually designed?
Of course not.
Just as the vast majority of biologists and cosmologists don't actually detect design in biology or the universe, just because you are unable to understand the difference between the appearance of design, and actual design.
Of course, you are guilty of argument from ignorance, or argument from personal incredulity. "I can't imagine how the universe came into existence, or how life came into being, therefore, it must be a god". I am sure I am not the first person to point this out, but just because you've been told before, does not make it any less true.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.