RE: Why did god create evil?
October 24, 2011 at 8:16 am
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2011 at 8:56 am by lucent.)
(October 24, 2011 at 7:47 am)Faith No More Wrote: So we're all damned because he gave adam and eve freewill? As an omnipotent god he should have been able to foresee all the consequences of this act.
If your god is up there, he is responsible for everything including evil.
What He is responsible for is beings who freely chose evil, and keep choosing it. His foreknowledge doesn't limit free will. And, He did something about it which was to redeem creation through His Son.
(October 24, 2011 at 8:07 am)edk141 Wrote:(October 24, 2011 at 7:52 am)lucent Wrote: Foreknowledge doesn't rule out free will. Foreknowledge doesn't force you to do something, nor does it prevent you from doing something.
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It absolutely does. God, if he is omniscient, made every choice for humans in advance. He had the ability to choose starting conditions - it wasn't just that he knew where humanity would go, but he manipulated it into going a specific way, thereby deciding all future choices.
If he had set humanity in motion, but couldn't see the future, free will could exist. Likewise, if he could see the future, but not control it, free will could exist. But since he can do both, he chose what every human ever would choose to do when he created the universe, and that isn't free will.
God knew that Adam and Eve would eat the apple. Why did he construct a world in which that would happen? Motherfucker.
(October 24, 2011 at 7:52 am)lucent Wrote: Remember that Eve was tempted of the tree because she wanted Gods wisdom for herself.
Nope. She was tempted by that snake guy.
First you have to define omniscience. There are things God cannot know under the most accepted definition. For instance, He can't know of a time He didn't exist. He can't know how to hide information from Himself. There are limitations to the standard definition of omniscience that people hold to which are self-refuting. I don't think it meaningfully describes God, personally.
You seem to think it is impossible for an omniscient (and all powerful) God to create beings with free will. I think it would be a rather trivial matter. I can imagine several scenerios on my own, such as limiting myself in such a way that my creatures could surprise me. God limited Himself when He came to Earth as a human being, after all. I think God is capable of creating a scenerio He couldn't completely anticipate while still maining His omniscience. The definition of omniscience that I use is "knowing everything that can be known". Does God know every thought He will ever have? That just seems ridiculous.
Again, foreknowledge does not limit free will. Just because He chose this scenerio doesn't mean He manipulated all of our choices. There is nothing barring that this is the best and most fair scenerio possible, regardless of what God knew in advance. The existence of evil doesn't contridict that possibility.
"Nope. She was tempted by that snake guy."
Satan tempted her, but she wanted the apple to gain Gods wisdom. If you see an ad for a new car, and you buy it, did the ad make you buy it?