(November 27, 2011 at 12:26 pm)Rhythm Wrote: That's fine. Upon what basis then were human beings cast out from the garden, or was there ever a garden? What then is sin, and why must we be washed of it? Why do we die, and are we then not fallen or cursed? How does your comment regarding Eve and god have anything to say about free will or evil if it is only a fanciful story? What are our origins (and indeed the origins of everything) if the genesis narrative is not literal, etc etc etc. I may think that the genesis narrative is garbage, but I don't see how christianity can proceed forward without it, it's the initiating moment in the prophetic cycle and without it god has no established authority, nor are we subject to all the nasty shit mentioned therein.Well, then why argue that the deck is stacked, if you'd like to take that stance for conversation we could continue that, but since it's not your stance, ATM, then we'll press on.
For the record, I'm not the one who postulates deck stacking. It's a certain bent of christian that insists in either the truth of this narrative or gods great omni-ness, not me, as an atheist. You already know I'd tell anyone who asked that the biblical narrative is bullshit start to finish.
1-Upon what basis then were human beings cast out from the garden? for failing to obey the will of God.
2-or was there ever a garden? Whether there was literal garden or it represents the intent and originating relationship we had with God is irrelevant. God gave us everything, told us what was wrong and right, then see #1
3-What then is sin, and why must we be washed of it? The continuous willful experience of not following God's plan for our life.
4-Why do we die, and are we then not fallen or cursed? Adamic lifespans were longer, whether that was exaggeration or tribal generation or literal years, I don't know. I'm not aware of any dying going on in the Garden of Eden so I assume that because of our choice to rebel we were cursed to toil instead of having everything provided including long life, and now die.
5-How does your comment regarding Eve and god have anything to say about free will or evil if it is only a fanciful story? Free will that was against God's plan is the crux of the creation and expulsion story and has an insight into free will applied correctly.
6-What are our origins (and indeed the origins of everything) if the genesis narrative is not literal? I believe science has come a long way to answer that question... do I need to get into abiogenesis and the big bang and other theories.
7- I don't see how christianity can proceed forward without it? religious types that deny scientific evidence can't proceed without it, luckily it's a minority I believe.
8- God's authority doesn't come from a story in a book, or multiple books, or from rules written on stone tablets.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari