RE: Why did god create evil?
December 1, 2011 at 10:00 am
(This post was last modified: December 1, 2011 at 10:07 am by Epimethean.)
(December 1, 2011 at 4:27 am)dtango Wrote:(November 30, 2011 at 11:27 pm)Epimethean Wrote: You are utterly incorrect that Ovid had no ability to read and understand the Greek philosophers. I am not sure where you think you are going with this, but Ovid was fluent in Greek as well as other major languages-as he had to be..
I am afraid, sir, you do not pay much attention to what I write or my knowledge of the English language is really bad. I wrote:
Ovid could not read the Pyramid texts. Ovid had not the means to know that what the Greek philosophers taught about the soul, the underworld and the judgment was the result of the Egyptian priesthood having presented the judgment of the living, which is described in the texts, as a judgment of the dead. The experiences of the people who survived judgment, which are narrated in the texts, were changed into experiences of dead people who were plowing, sowing, eating, drinking and having sex after their death.
Ovid could read Greek. At that time even the illiterate disciples of Jesus could read and write in Greek (you are utterly incorrect as regards judeo-xtianity. It is Greco-xtianity. The gospels and everything else was written by authors who knew the Greek language but not the Hebrew or the Aramaic one ).
(November 30, 2011 at 11:27 pm)Epimethean Wrote: By the by, your contention of "iudex" meaning only "god" is violated by your own suggestion of allegorical defenses..
As I understand the situation, “Perseus” translation: They lived safe without a Judge is correct.
I am not saying that “iudex” means only “god” but taking into account the fact that Ovid is referring to people living without gods, that the gods were killing people and that the gods WERE and in a sense still ARE judges, yes I believe that by “iudex” Ovid meant “god.” What is your interpretation of the verse in question?
(November 30, 2011 at 11:27 pm)Epimethean Wrote: As for your "application" of Theagenes, it is more than a bit disingenuous, as the very same sources you used to get his name went on to say about him:.
"All that he wrote is lost to contemporary history.Information about his life has been available in the existing documents written by his contemporaries,and of those of future generations,these having felt his influence."
Theagenes’ testimonia I have in Greek. Do you read Greek, ancient or modern?
(November 30, 2011 at 11:27 pm)Epimethean Wrote: Cut this shit out. You are taking both sides, then neither, then bouncing back and forth and none of it is compelling..
I guess you right. I am an atheist who loves the Old Testament but… I am not dogmatic and so I am free to seek whatever is of value in those archaic texts.
Yes, I do read Greek, Attic, Koine and Demotic (in addition to Latin), and I did get your point about Ovid. You seem to think because you taught yourself a rudimentary use of hieroglyphics, you have a better understanding than a man who not only could read the ancient texts of commentators in Greek, but who, through temporal proximity, had access to thousands of texts we no longer have available to us. Your suggestion that Ovid could not have known what you know has only your bias as basis, and your bias seems to be rehabilitating the OT as a major influence on Greco-Roman writers in antiquity, which is an old ploy that has generally been shot through with holes by philologists and historians worth their salt.
Having testimonia about Theagenes is like saying that you have Michael Moore's notes on a lecture he once attended by a student of Nixon and then representing it as the actual Nixon in person.
As for how I read the use of "iudex" in the passage from Ovid, I am not saying that it cannot refer to god or gods, but that it almost certainly does not refer to any christian god or the concept thereof. If you want to conflate Iuppiter, Yahweh, and Mithra, and you are willing to accept that the caused and effect you are suggesting could as easily be tail forward, I would be willing to meet you halfway. But to suggest that the OT is THE influential text here is simplistic at best, and dishonest at worst.
Trying to update my sig ...