<![CDATA[Atheist Forums - Converts' Corner]]> https://atheistforums.org/ Wed, 13 May 2026 15:53:29 +0000 MyBB <![CDATA[Deconstruction And A Little Rant]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-66350.html Mon, 03 Mar 2025 20:04:50 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-66350.html
There's a lot more people out there going through the same thing. I think that's also concerning because the non-believers who met me during my job(s) weren't skilled or trained to properly set me straight. Thank Zeus for YouTube, I guess. 

Ultimately, atheism or "apostasy" isn't punishable. In fact, the mention of punishment is a red flag. If there is a god who loves unconditionally as some followers claim, why must that god be feared? Because of hell? Because of the fear of dying? Or because I might be reborn in a new and less convenient life? Um well none of those count as rebuttals and last I checked reincarnation isn't remotely "Abrahamic." 

The god I prayed to throughout my life wasn't identical to any of the characters in the good book(The grass feed). Jesus is an admirable character until I realize that Mathew, Mark, Luke and John are technically four varying accounts of him. I had a mild headache following the variations of Deadpool in the latest film. I must've had "blind headaches" trying to establish Jesus as some early version of Superman. What a waste of memory and neurons and time.

Any moment in my past in prayer was isolation, imagination and a result of gas lighting.

I hope real skeptics will strip their conservative Clark Kent disguises and guide students in theological campuses towards inquiry and curiosity. It's a better dream than heaven (what ever that is).

An eternity in hell doesn't scare me as much as my fear of the U.S. fulfilling Dave Cullen's prophecy.]]>
There's a lot more people out there going through the same thing. I think that's also concerning because the non-believers who met me during my job(s) weren't skilled or trained to properly set me straight. Thank Zeus for YouTube, I guess. 

Ultimately, atheism or "apostasy" isn't punishable. In fact, the mention of punishment is a red flag. If there is a god who loves unconditionally as some followers claim, why must that god be feared? Because of hell? Because of the fear of dying? Or because I might be reborn in a new and less convenient life? Um well none of those count as rebuttals and last I checked reincarnation isn't remotely "Abrahamic." 

The god I prayed to throughout my life wasn't identical to any of the characters in the good book(The grass feed). Jesus is an admirable character until I realize that Mathew, Mark, Luke and John are technically four varying accounts of him. I had a mild headache following the variations of Deadpool in the latest film. I must've had "blind headaches" trying to establish Jesus as some early version of Superman. What a waste of memory and neurons and time.

Any moment in my past in prayer was isolation, imagination and a result of gas lighting.

I hope real skeptics will strip their conservative Clark Kent disguises and guide students in theological campuses towards inquiry and curiosity. It's a better dream than heaven (what ever that is).

An eternity in hell doesn't scare me as much as my fear of the U.S. fulfilling Dave Cullen's prophecy.]]> <![CDATA[Fear After Leaving?]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-66318.html Wed, 29 Jan 2025 20:23:12 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-66318.html souls, heaven and the like left a lasting impression. Why would adults share their unsupported claims of the supernatural (with children)?

I've heard many wild claims. Most were shared in a classroom by professionals. Understanding that they were fed those same beliefs somewhat helps but there's still a nagging shame for being naive and a haunting sense of guilt for denying what's been claimed to exist for our salvation (Whatever that means). 

I'm not sure what this feeling is but it's consuming and twisting my stomach. It's complicated. My routine was attending an evangelical church every Sunday. Despite their dogma and conservative views, I found some purpose even though they're certainly false. I don't miss emulating their behaviors, but I do miss being around them. If the interactions I've had with them were performances instead of real then I'd feel worse. But they weren't. They were real people to me.

The beliefs are unsupported.

The magical thinking shifted my anxieties and worries. But now, all the effort in private prayers seem like wasted time. I know that activity can easily help, but my emotions are overwhelming. All that time was wasted trying to become another evangelist. 

Being a decent person doesn't require fairy tales or fears of eternal doom. Now that I'm out, fear alone is biting my rear.]]> souls, heaven and the like left a lasting impression. Why would adults share their unsupported claims of the supernatural (with children)?

I've heard many wild claims. Most were shared in a classroom by professionals. Understanding that they were fed those same beliefs somewhat helps but there's still a nagging shame for being naive and a haunting sense of guilt for denying what's been claimed to exist for our salvation (Whatever that means). 

I'm not sure what this feeling is but it's consuming and twisting my stomach. It's complicated. My routine was attending an evangelical church every Sunday. Despite their dogma and conservative views, I found some purpose even though they're certainly false. I don't miss emulating their behaviors, but I do miss being around them. If the interactions I've had with them were performances instead of real then I'd feel worse. But they weren't. They were real people to me.

The beliefs are unsupported.

The magical thinking shifted my anxieties and worries. But now, all the effort in private prayers seem like wasted time. I know that activity can easily help, but my emotions are overwhelming. All that time was wasted trying to become another evangelist. 

Being a decent person doesn't require fairy tales or fears of eternal doom. Now that I'm out, fear alone is biting my rear.]]> <![CDATA[Assumptions and Disappointments]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-66273.html Sat, 04 Jan 2025 01:40:03 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-66273.html
My experience with evangelists includes deceit from others and my own eagerness to find community. I wanted a group to socialize with and still want one. Without doing any research, I became a member of a local church. But who exactly researches a local place of worship before joining? Aren't religious people humble? That was my primary mistake.

I assumed the group's values and believed that being too critical would be rude. Many of us take leaps of faith when encountering a potential friend, but true friendships are very different from specific places of worship. Without any clue, I received warm welcomes from nice and warm people. They weren't threatening in the beginning of our association. 

Looking back is a blur now. Months in, I accepted communion or 'met the savior on the cross.' Some part of me actually wanted to experience what an early Catholic grade school failed to accomplish. But once again, I made an assumption - that being free from any belief system meant being 'outside' of the loop.  

An all loving god was the only thing I shared with the church. Verses were cherry picked from the bible. And over time, verses were reused with different interpretations. As discipleship began, I overlooked this. And my private readings of the bible and an increasing scrupulous side of me made everything stick. 

My desire for a social group was traded for loyalty. If I had a concern or a disagreement, it was kept to myself. There were no debates or thoughtful discussions. Our arms were raised and our palms faced the ceiling every Sunday. Anyone who spoke were free to interpret passages how they pleased. One particular person spoke in tongues while speaking. Eventually, I found videos of the 'flock' denouncing equal rights for LGBTQ. Although, the videos were from a few years back, I was embarrassed and frankly I felt ashamed. How could I knowingly associate myself with them? I started to wonder if there were any subtle ques of homophobia that were missed. But this made me more ashamed and very lost. 

Many of the people throughout my life encouraged me to respect the personal beliefs of others. If there's disagreement, the topic of discussion is changed or both parties calmly adjourn. Over time, I'm encouraged to recognize the intentions of others and to prevent additional awkward and disappointing situations. But disappointment is part of life. Truce Right?

Feel free to add your stories or any thoughts.]]>
My experience with evangelists includes deceit from others and my own eagerness to find community. I wanted a group to socialize with and still want one. Without doing any research, I became a member of a local church. But who exactly researches a local place of worship before joining? Aren't religious people humble? That was my primary mistake.

I assumed the group's values and believed that being too critical would be rude. Many of us take leaps of faith when encountering a potential friend, but true friendships are very different from specific places of worship. Without any clue, I received warm welcomes from nice and warm people. They weren't threatening in the beginning of our association. 

Looking back is a blur now. Months in, I accepted communion or 'met the savior on the cross.' Some part of me actually wanted to experience what an early Catholic grade school failed to accomplish. But once again, I made an assumption - that being free from any belief system meant being 'outside' of the loop.  

An all loving god was the only thing I shared with the church. Verses were cherry picked from the bible. And over time, verses were reused with different interpretations. As discipleship began, I overlooked this. And my private readings of the bible and an increasing scrupulous side of me made everything stick. 

My desire for a social group was traded for loyalty. If I had a concern or a disagreement, it was kept to myself. There were no debates or thoughtful discussions. Our arms were raised and our palms faced the ceiling every Sunday. Anyone who spoke were free to interpret passages how they pleased. One particular person spoke in tongues while speaking. Eventually, I found videos of the 'flock' denouncing equal rights for LGBTQ. Although, the videos were from a few years back, I was embarrassed and frankly I felt ashamed. How could I knowingly associate myself with them? I started to wonder if there were any subtle ques of homophobia that were missed. But this made me more ashamed and very lost. 

Many of the people throughout my life encouraged me to respect the personal beliefs of others. If there's disagreement, the topic of discussion is changed or both parties calmly adjourn. Over time, I'm encouraged to recognize the intentions of others and to prevent additional awkward and disappointing situations. But disappointment is part of life. Truce Right?

Feel free to add your stories or any thoughts.]]> <![CDATA[Deconstructing From Evangelical Christianity]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-66229.html Tue, 10 Dec 2024 23:54:05 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-66229.html
Religious superstitions have always been among my family. Four years ago, my journey officially began in the form of discipleship and a desire for community. But it concluded with obsessions over everyone's salvation (especially in professional settings). Acts of charity gradually became attention seeking. Primarily the attention of an all-knowing deity. 

Loosing religious belief doesn't hurt nearly as much as loosing trust in a group of people who worship so close to home. Then again, this planet is home for all of us. Maybe it's time for me to expand my sense of home. 

Hopefully, my discipleship and fallacious God-of-the-gaps reasoning can be unlearned entirely.   Dead Horse]]>
Religious superstitions have always been among my family. Four years ago, my journey officially began in the form of discipleship and a desire for community. But it concluded with obsessions over everyone's salvation (especially in professional settings). Acts of charity gradually became attention seeking. Primarily the attention of an all-knowing deity. 

Loosing religious belief doesn't hurt nearly as much as loosing trust in a group of people who worship so close to home. Then again, this planet is home for all of us. Maybe it's time for me to expand my sense of home. 

Hopefully, my discipleship and fallacious God-of-the-gaps reasoning can be unlearned entirely.   Dead Horse]]> <![CDATA[Undeniably Here]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-65895.html Thu, 04 Apr 2024 16:41:15 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-65895.html
After three decades of serving in Christian ministry, I am rejecting the belief system in which the majority of my life and the entirety of my professional career have been rooted. The journey to this point has been strange and slow, but I am undeniably here. I am abandoning things I once held dear; conversely, I am embracing things I once deemed foolish. 

I'll not bore you with the details of my story, but I can summarize it with this: I now recognize that so much of what is presented as evidence for Christianity is little more than the age-old traditions of the church and the emotional convictions of those who hold it to be true. I lie awake at night wondering why I was so slow to learn this. 

I look forward to crossing paths with all of you here in this little corner of cyberspace. Thanks for your time. 

~jamie ]]>
After three decades of serving in Christian ministry, I am rejecting the belief system in which the majority of my life and the entirety of my professional career have been rooted. The journey to this point has been strange and slow, but I am undeniably here. I am abandoning things I once held dear; conversely, I am embracing things I once deemed foolish. 

I'll not bore you with the details of my story, but I can summarize it with this: I now recognize that so much of what is presented as evidence for Christianity is little more than the age-old traditions of the church and the emotional convictions of those who hold it to be true. I lie awake at night wondering why I was so slow to learn this. 

I look forward to crossing paths with all of you here in this little corner of cyberspace. Thanks for your time. 

~jamie ]]> <![CDATA[Ex-muslim and the truth about islam]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-65302.html Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:01:54 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-65302.html
I am an ex muslim who has seen and went though hell which really changed my views on islam and religion in general.

Now I luckily spawned in one of the most stable countries in the middle east (unironically) not a khaleeji country, its one of the levant countries and I am very lucky for that to happen. There is lots of liberals/more open minded people which is good. Now either way onto my story:

Growing up I was forced to read, recite and memorize the entire quran. (I never did and always caused problems with my father). I never took any of it seriously and kind of been atheist before I even knew what atheism was. But I always tried to reason with my self and said I am going to hell if I continue this way I guess it never worked. 

Now what really made me rethink this entire religion is seeing this sexually deprived, creepy, perverted society around me. Now think about it, Most schools are seregated due to islam obviously (only boys schools, only girls schools). Which obviously you guessed it creates a sexually deprived society. Men are literally the horniest ever since they barely see any girls in other than their mom and sister maybe. And you even notice how fucked up it is on the daily basis, lots of times women are minding their own business and men start cat calling them or for example honking for them if they are driving etc. Which makes girls very very uncomfrtable. And guess whats the root of this issue? Islam. It has even reached to a governmental level, Its so bad that if your a woman doing a driver's test and committ like 5 mistakes, you will pass since your just a slightly attractive woman. And there is many more examples and its a very well knwon thing in this country. And it fucking pisses me off, this fictional shitty meth ( Hehe ) from like a thousand plus years has really shaped our society and how it functions.

Now another thing is forcing the daughters to wear hijab. I have seen it my uncle has verbally and physically abused my cousin because shes doesnt want to wear a hijab. This girl almost killed herself from it. And I know many more examples of girls being beat up and not allowed to leave the house FOR MONTHS because they refuse to wear a fucking cloth on their head. 

So from seeing all this, when I grew up a little (around 14/15) I started really making my mind up. It was a slow process and I kept thinking to myself "its the law its from allah its fine" But deep down I knew this was fucking up. So after much research and stuff after around a year and a half I made my mind up and I officially just didnt give a fuck about allah, god or whatever. I felt and still feel very good about it but I just cant wait to finish this year and fuck off and move to germany next year. 

So yeah thats my story and everything

Feel free to ask any questions or anything you want  Great Panic]]>
I am an ex muslim who has seen and went though hell which really changed my views on islam and religion in general.

Now I luckily spawned in one of the most stable countries in the middle east (unironically) not a khaleeji country, its one of the levant countries and I am very lucky for that to happen. There is lots of liberals/more open minded people which is good. Now either way onto my story:

Growing up I was forced to read, recite and memorize the entire quran. (I never did and always caused problems with my father). I never took any of it seriously and kind of been atheist before I even knew what atheism was. But I always tried to reason with my self and said I am going to hell if I continue this way I guess it never worked. 

Now what really made me rethink this entire religion is seeing this sexually deprived, creepy, perverted society around me. Now think about it, Most schools are seregated due to islam obviously (only boys schools, only girls schools). Which obviously you guessed it creates a sexually deprived society. Men are literally the horniest ever since they barely see any girls in other than their mom and sister maybe. And you even notice how fucked up it is on the daily basis, lots of times women are minding their own business and men start cat calling them or for example honking for them if they are driving etc. Which makes girls very very uncomfrtable. And guess whats the root of this issue? Islam. It has even reached to a governmental level, Its so bad that if your a woman doing a driver's test and committ like 5 mistakes, you will pass since your just a slightly attractive woman. And there is many more examples and its a very well knwon thing in this country. And it fucking pisses me off, this fictional shitty meth ( Hehe ) from like a thousand plus years has really shaped our society and how it functions.

Now another thing is forcing the daughters to wear hijab. I have seen it my uncle has verbally and physically abused my cousin because shes doesnt want to wear a hijab. This girl almost killed herself from it. And I know many more examples of girls being beat up and not allowed to leave the house FOR MONTHS because they refuse to wear a fucking cloth on their head. 

So from seeing all this, when I grew up a little (around 14/15) I started really making my mind up. It was a slow process and I kept thinking to myself "its the law its from allah its fine" But deep down I knew this was fucking up. So after much research and stuff after around a year and a half I made my mind up and I officially just didnt give a fuck about allah, god or whatever. I felt and still feel very good about it but I just cant wait to finish this year and fuck off and move to germany next year. 

So yeah thats my story and everything

Feel free to ask any questions or anything you want  Great Panic]]> <![CDATA[Ex-Christian]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-65266.html Thu, 10 Aug 2023 11:49:26 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-65266.html

I was an adult convert to Christianity, and then spent 20 years within the church as a very active member. I wanted to be a minister, gained a degree in Christian Theology, and taught Religious Studies for some years.

As I studied I had to keep changing my theological position in the light of better arguments, new evidence, and my lived experience. Christianity was unpleasant and difficult. I became more and more liberal, painfully facing theological, ethical, and biblical issue after issue after issue. It is like spinning plates - as soon as you find some apologetic for one issue, then the knock-on ramifications of that 'solution' cause some other dogma to wobble and you have to 'solve' that, and so on.

At some point it all became too ridiculous and tiring to continue. There were simply too many wobbling plates, too much evidence against, too many problems. And it was just best to let them all fall and go do something else with my life.

And so I did. It was a hard long process that slow erosion of my faith. Not easy. And I have great sympathy with those who struggle in that way. I have ex-Christian friends who are still scared of hell years later. And the negative effects of religious abuse, or poor faith-informed life choices still haunts them (as it does me).

And it's not easy being outside of all faiths now either. Although in many ways it opened up new vistas of freedom and liberty, and removed many burdens of guilt and cognitive dissonance, it came with its own burdens of felt absence and loss - and the nihilistic, physicalist universe I now accept as the most likely accurate view of reality holds little comfort and much horror.

It seems you cannot really win, and I appreciate how hard it is to de-convert and how hard it can be for some to face the nature of reality without faith.

So that's me, and why I'm here, I guess Smile

Feel free to ask question or make comments.]]>

I was an adult convert to Christianity, and then spent 20 years within the church as a very active member. I wanted to be a minister, gained a degree in Christian Theology, and taught Religious Studies for some years.

As I studied I had to keep changing my theological position in the light of better arguments, new evidence, and my lived experience. Christianity was unpleasant and difficult. I became more and more liberal, painfully facing theological, ethical, and biblical issue after issue after issue. It is like spinning plates - as soon as you find some apologetic for one issue, then the knock-on ramifications of that 'solution' cause some other dogma to wobble and you have to 'solve' that, and so on.

At some point it all became too ridiculous and tiring to continue. There were simply too many wobbling plates, too much evidence against, too many problems. And it was just best to let them all fall and go do something else with my life.

And so I did. It was a hard long process that slow erosion of my faith. Not easy. And I have great sympathy with those who struggle in that way. I have ex-Christian friends who are still scared of hell years later. And the negative effects of religious abuse, or poor faith-informed life choices still haunts them (as it does me).

And it's not easy being outside of all faiths now either. Although in many ways it opened up new vistas of freedom and liberty, and removed many burdens of guilt and cognitive dissonance, it came with its own burdens of felt absence and loss - and the nihilistic, physicalist universe I now accept as the most likely accurate view of reality holds little comfort and much horror.

It seems you cannot really win, and I appreciate how hard it is to de-convert and how hard it can be for some to face the nature of reality without faith.

So that's me, and why I'm here, I guess Smile

Feel free to ask question or make comments.]]> <![CDATA[The Reason I'm Atheist]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-64933.html Tue, 11 Apr 2023 18:15:11 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-64933.html
Well i seem to be a little bit stuck in the concept of how people actually believe in god, couple of reasons why;

Why did God create people capable of Tyranny, Evil, Anger, Infliction, Argumentation, Aggressive. 

It just proves that  God cannot actually be real, or he would solely be to blame for all of it, as he made it possible.

Like, God made man capable of War, and Warmonger, there for kind of resolves at him as the origin.

I think generally a  lot of the world is generally really scammed by this and can't see it, cheated out of the real things we should believe and directions we should have. 

What do  you think?

Thanks Once]]>
Well i seem to be a little bit stuck in the concept of how people actually believe in god, couple of reasons why;

Why did God create people capable of Tyranny, Evil, Anger, Infliction, Argumentation, Aggressive. 

It just proves that  God cannot actually be real, or he would solely be to blame for all of it, as he made it possible.

Like, God made man capable of War, and Warmonger, there for kind of resolves at him as the origin.

I think generally a  lot of the world is generally really scammed by this and can't see it, cheated out of the real things we should believe and directions we should have. 

What do  you think?

Thanks Once]]> <![CDATA[One Year Anniversary]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-63060.html Wed, 14 Jul 2021 11:23:41 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-63060.html
My story starts a bit earlier than last year but we'll keep the back story brief. So, I was not born a man but I've always been one. In Mormonism your body is a temple and your spirit is gendered to match your biological sex. There are no "mistakes" there are no "wrong bodies". So, there's no changing it. But this has always been an integral part of who I am, even as a young person. My brainwashing in the cult was so deep, however, that I repressed and suppressed this part of me until the war between God and identity almost killed me.

I did everything right. I attended church, I paid tithing, I went to seminary all 4 years of high school. And I married a returned missionary in the temple, just like I was supposed to. But not long after we were married, my husband and I stopped attending church. I still believed in everything but we just decided that church attendance wasn't edifying to our faith. I changed a lot about myself to make my husband happy but in the end, she came out as trans and left me for another man, who she'd been cheating on me with during the last year of our marriage. We divorced in 2012 and I was heartbroken.

In 2016 I had a spiritual reawakening. All of a sudden, I had the urge to pray for help during a financial crisis my family was going through and I promised God that no matter what happened, I'd start attending church again. To show that it was His will that I would follow and that I was genuine about the conditions he would expect of me, I repented of my sins and returned to active church life. I followed where the spirit led me, trying to be as obedient as I could. 

I attended BYU-Idaho as an English major and dropped out after a year to try to figure things out. You see, in the summer of 2018, I experienced an extreme case of gender dysphoria, but at the time, I didn't know what it was. I was just having a lot of panic attacks every Sunday when I would have to put on a dress to attend church. So, by fall of 2018, I stopped attending church again and I dropped out of school, the pressure too much for me at this time when I was suffering from an unidentifiable depression and anxiety over "nothing". I was in denial but when it finally came to me in 2019 and I realized, in the quiet calm of my own head what I wanted, without church constantly invading telling me what to want, I was overcome with hopelessness. I was surrounded by Mormon family and authority that would reject me for such thoughts, let alone if I came out as a man.

In March 2019, I attempted to take my own life. 

I failed and was taken to the hospital and after a week was sent home to PA. For most of 2019 I was the walking dead, numbed by my failure in everything, and contemplating trying suicide again. But my mother and siblings who are nonactive Mormons and the beautiful countryside eventually woke me up. Plus, my wonderful dog, who was a rescue, ended up rescuing me, bringing me out of my depression. By the end of 2019, I had come out to my immediate family and started living my life as my true self. As a man.

I wasn't looking to be deconverted. I had made peace with the Mormon God; the rules were what they were but I would rather be alive than dead and obedience would kill me. I figured if he were truly my Father, then when I eventually died later in my life, I could talk it over with him face to face. It was a semi-peaceful existence, thinking that I was living wrong and displeasing my creator but for the first time feeling free to be myself the way I've always felt inside.

July-August 2020, I was looking for Mormon prophecies about the end times. With the election, all my hyper Mormon family members(my aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents) were convinced the end was near so I wanted to find YouTube videos about it. I stumbled upon a video by Jimmy Snow called 10 Things Mormons Won't Tell You. I snorted to myself, feeling cavalier in the challenge and settled down to watch it, anticipating misunderstandings and bad faith arguments. To my surprise, Jimmy showed clips of LDS.org, the official church website and a hidden section called the Gospel Topics Essays where the church officially addresses some of its own controversies.

Mormonism is a cult and the only way that it can survive in a thinking mind is to convince its smart and clever members to be terrified of the truth. It's called anti-Mormon propaganda and it consists of "anything negative about the church" + "sources not put out officially by the LDS church itself." So, as a member, you are taught just a little bit of the truth and told that the rest are lies. And the rest is just condemned as non-trustworthy because it didn't come from the living prophet himself. 

So imagine my surprise as a long time believing member, going to the official source, the source I could trust above all others, the church website, and finding articles in which the church states things that used to be anti-Mormon propaganda when I was younger. It was a mixture of admissions of truth to claims that I had been taught were vicious lies by those who hate and persecute us(agents of Satan) and retconning things I had learned as fact when I was in Sunday school. Even as late as my short stint in college, I had learned facts about the church that these official articles were now trying to say something different happened.

I mean, there is "continued revelation" guidelines useful for our specific time and generation. But the past is the past. You can't teach me all my life that Joseph Smith never had more than one wife but then come out and admit he was doing the Lord's work by marrying 33 other women and nothing sexual happened between him and the underage ones. You can't teach me all my life that Joseph Smith translated the golden plates by looking over them by candlelight and then admit he didn't look at them, they were covered up and he instead peered at a seer stone with his face buried in a hat. You can't teach me my whole life that the Book of Abraham was translated from Egyptian papyri, with the drawn figures and symbols in the Book of Mormon right next to the text and then later admit that the papyrus and pictures were just "inspiration" for revelation and that it wasn't actually translated because Egyptologists say the Book of Abraham isn't what the surviving papyrus even says.

It's enough to call the whole thing into question to have these "corrections" and lies revealed in this secretive way. But then they gaslight you; in the official articles and well-known Mormon apologists pretend that not only has this information always been available to members but that it's your fault for not knowing about it and feeling hurt and betrayed now is nonsense.

I was crushed. It's not any one truth that hurt me but the way the lies were revealed and the church that I had put all of my trust into treating me like a dumb crazy person for being upset. It'd be one thing to achieve transparency, to come out, lay it bare, the gritty history and apologize for hiding it. I might have been further emotionally manipulated if they'd acted human and said they f-ed up and made a mistake; that maybe they thought hiding it would be better for the church. But the gospel topics essays are not promoted, not taught in classes, not discussed, and they're in a buried part of the website. And the manipulation is not what I expect from trustworthy men of God who were chosen to speak for him. 

The first two weeks of August 2020 were an emotional hell. I went through phases of being so upset, lost, and frightened of my changing definition of reality. I occasionally was angry and bitter over how much of my life was stolen because I'd been obedient instead of been true to myself. It was painful to realize how many choices and decisions I had made based on trust in the authority that spoke for God, how I'd almost killed myself and destroyed the one life I have over controlling and manipulative lies. 

For the most part, I was fascinated. I read the CES letter, I read books about the sordid history of the church, and watched a ton of ex-Mo content on YouTube. Joseph Smith is much more intriguing when you strip away the martyrdom and superhero Jesus 2.0 cape.

I tried to stay a Christian for a while. I joined Christian Forums and...spent my time in the "other religions" section arguing with Mormons to vent my frustration. I had come out to family and despite my immediate family being inactive, Mormonism is still their core belief system, just like it had been mine while I was living openly as trans. It was just a couple of discussions before we came to an agreement not to talk about it; I wouldn't try to convince them and they wouldn't try to convince me. 

I also lurked a bit on the CF, researching about Jesus. I thought I could keep the baby and toss the bathwater but the more I read the more I learned that the Bible is not a holy book and we can't even prove who wrote most of it. My secondary shelf broke the more that I embraced skepticism and by October, I was a full-fledged atheist.

This might be the last "anniversary" I acknowledge or celebrate for becoming atheist. I can feel myself calming down about atheism and religions and the Mormon cult. Once you're released from that burden of belief, the anxiety of shame and guilt, it feels less important to continue to let it consume you. I accept that it is emotion based and those who believe don't have good reasons for believing, thus, trying to convince them, or dedicating my time and energy to righting the wrongs feels like just more manipulation to keep me occupied and focused. I'm truly utterly free to be me. No disappointed Father looking down, no punishments waiting after this life, and just this self-acceptance that even if there were...it's not MY god and I don't have to be afraid of not obeying a cruel monstrous despot. After this, I won't have to hang onto this story, this date in time, because the marking of my day of freedom will blend with "living my life as I see fit" and I won't have to think about the chains I left behind.

But for this first one, this first year, I wanted to acknowledge it. I wanted to tell my story.]]>
My story starts a bit earlier than last year but we'll keep the back story brief. So, I was not born a man but I've always been one. In Mormonism your body is a temple and your spirit is gendered to match your biological sex. There are no "mistakes" there are no "wrong bodies". So, there's no changing it. But this has always been an integral part of who I am, even as a young person. My brainwashing in the cult was so deep, however, that I repressed and suppressed this part of me until the war between God and identity almost killed me.

I did everything right. I attended church, I paid tithing, I went to seminary all 4 years of high school. And I married a returned missionary in the temple, just like I was supposed to. But not long after we were married, my husband and I stopped attending church. I still believed in everything but we just decided that church attendance wasn't edifying to our faith. I changed a lot about myself to make my husband happy but in the end, she came out as trans and left me for another man, who she'd been cheating on me with during the last year of our marriage. We divorced in 2012 and I was heartbroken.

In 2016 I had a spiritual reawakening. All of a sudden, I had the urge to pray for help during a financial crisis my family was going through and I promised God that no matter what happened, I'd start attending church again. To show that it was His will that I would follow and that I was genuine about the conditions he would expect of me, I repented of my sins and returned to active church life. I followed where the spirit led me, trying to be as obedient as I could. 

I attended BYU-Idaho as an English major and dropped out after a year to try to figure things out. You see, in the summer of 2018, I experienced an extreme case of gender dysphoria, but at the time, I didn't know what it was. I was just having a lot of panic attacks every Sunday when I would have to put on a dress to attend church. So, by fall of 2018, I stopped attending church again and I dropped out of school, the pressure too much for me at this time when I was suffering from an unidentifiable depression and anxiety over "nothing". I was in denial but when it finally came to me in 2019 and I realized, in the quiet calm of my own head what I wanted, without church constantly invading telling me what to want, I was overcome with hopelessness. I was surrounded by Mormon family and authority that would reject me for such thoughts, let alone if I came out as a man.

In March 2019, I attempted to take my own life. 

I failed and was taken to the hospital and after a week was sent home to PA. For most of 2019 I was the walking dead, numbed by my failure in everything, and contemplating trying suicide again. But my mother and siblings who are nonactive Mormons and the beautiful countryside eventually woke me up. Plus, my wonderful dog, who was a rescue, ended up rescuing me, bringing me out of my depression. By the end of 2019, I had come out to my immediate family and started living my life as my true self. As a man.

I wasn't looking to be deconverted. I had made peace with the Mormon God; the rules were what they were but I would rather be alive than dead and obedience would kill me. I figured if he were truly my Father, then when I eventually died later in my life, I could talk it over with him face to face. It was a semi-peaceful existence, thinking that I was living wrong and displeasing my creator but for the first time feeling free to be myself the way I've always felt inside.

July-August 2020, I was looking for Mormon prophecies about the end times. With the election, all my hyper Mormon family members(my aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents) were convinced the end was near so I wanted to find YouTube videos about it. I stumbled upon a video by Jimmy Snow called 10 Things Mormons Won't Tell You. I snorted to myself, feeling cavalier in the challenge and settled down to watch it, anticipating misunderstandings and bad faith arguments. To my surprise, Jimmy showed clips of LDS.org, the official church website and a hidden section called the Gospel Topics Essays where the church officially addresses some of its own controversies.

Mormonism is a cult and the only way that it can survive in a thinking mind is to convince its smart and clever members to be terrified of the truth. It's called anti-Mormon propaganda and it consists of "anything negative about the church" + "sources not put out officially by the LDS church itself." So, as a member, you are taught just a little bit of the truth and told that the rest are lies. And the rest is just condemned as non-trustworthy because it didn't come from the living prophet himself. 

So imagine my surprise as a long time believing member, going to the official source, the source I could trust above all others, the church website, and finding articles in which the church states things that used to be anti-Mormon propaganda when I was younger. It was a mixture of admissions of truth to claims that I had been taught were vicious lies by those who hate and persecute us(agents of Satan) and retconning things I had learned as fact when I was in Sunday school. Even as late as my short stint in college, I had learned facts about the church that these official articles were now trying to say something different happened.

I mean, there is "continued revelation" guidelines useful for our specific time and generation. But the past is the past. You can't teach me all my life that Joseph Smith never had more than one wife but then come out and admit he was doing the Lord's work by marrying 33 other women and nothing sexual happened between him and the underage ones. You can't teach me all my life that Joseph Smith translated the golden plates by looking over them by candlelight and then admit he didn't look at them, they were covered up and he instead peered at a seer stone with his face buried in a hat. You can't teach me my whole life that the Book of Abraham was translated from Egyptian papyri, with the drawn figures and symbols in the Book of Mormon right next to the text and then later admit that the papyrus and pictures were just "inspiration" for revelation and that it wasn't actually translated because Egyptologists say the Book of Abraham isn't what the surviving papyrus even says.

It's enough to call the whole thing into question to have these "corrections" and lies revealed in this secretive way. But then they gaslight you; in the official articles and well-known Mormon apologists pretend that not only has this information always been available to members but that it's your fault for not knowing about it and feeling hurt and betrayed now is nonsense.

I was crushed. It's not any one truth that hurt me but the way the lies were revealed and the church that I had put all of my trust into treating me like a dumb crazy person for being upset. It'd be one thing to achieve transparency, to come out, lay it bare, the gritty history and apologize for hiding it. I might have been further emotionally manipulated if they'd acted human and said they f-ed up and made a mistake; that maybe they thought hiding it would be better for the church. But the gospel topics essays are not promoted, not taught in classes, not discussed, and they're in a buried part of the website. And the manipulation is not what I expect from trustworthy men of God who were chosen to speak for him. 

The first two weeks of August 2020 were an emotional hell. I went through phases of being so upset, lost, and frightened of my changing definition of reality. I occasionally was angry and bitter over how much of my life was stolen because I'd been obedient instead of been true to myself. It was painful to realize how many choices and decisions I had made based on trust in the authority that spoke for God, how I'd almost killed myself and destroyed the one life I have over controlling and manipulative lies. 

For the most part, I was fascinated. I read the CES letter, I read books about the sordid history of the church, and watched a ton of ex-Mo content on YouTube. Joseph Smith is much more intriguing when you strip away the martyrdom and superhero Jesus 2.0 cape.

I tried to stay a Christian for a while. I joined Christian Forums and...spent my time in the "other religions" section arguing with Mormons to vent my frustration. I had come out to family and despite my immediate family being inactive, Mormonism is still their core belief system, just like it had been mine while I was living openly as trans. It was just a couple of discussions before we came to an agreement not to talk about it; I wouldn't try to convince them and they wouldn't try to convince me. 

I also lurked a bit on the CF, researching about Jesus. I thought I could keep the baby and toss the bathwater but the more I read the more I learned that the Bible is not a holy book and we can't even prove who wrote most of it. My secondary shelf broke the more that I embraced skepticism and by October, I was a full-fledged atheist.

This might be the last "anniversary" I acknowledge or celebrate for becoming atheist. I can feel myself calming down about atheism and religions and the Mormon cult. Once you're released from that burden of belief, the anxiety of shame and guilt, it feels less important to continue to let it consume you. I accept that it is emotion based and those who believe don't have good reasons for believing, thus, trying to convince them, or dedicating my time and energy to righting the wrongs feels like just more manipulation to keep me occupied and focused. I'm truly utterly free to be me. No disappointed Father looking down, no punishments waiting after this life, and just this self-acceptance that even if there were...it's not MY god and I don't have to be afraid of not obeying a cruel monstrous despot. After this, I won't have to hang onto this story, this date in time, because the marking of my day of freedom will blend with "living my life as I see fit" and I won't have to think about the chains I left behind.

But for this first one, this first year, I wanted to acknowledge it. I wanted to tell my story.]]> <![CDATA[Dealing with religious OCD]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-59303.html Tue, 02 Jul 2019 13:49:33 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-59303.html
I was wondering are there any fellow atheist here that suffered from religious/pihlosophical/Pure-O OCD? If so, how did you recover from that? I'm on the downward spiral for the past few weeks and looking for some tips that would let me function better. Religious upbringing and my neurotic nature make all of this really confusing and scary for me. Thanks in advance! Smile]]>
I was wondering are there any fellow atheist here that suffered from religious/pihlosophical/Pure-O OCD? If so, how did you recover from that? I'm on the downward spiral for the past few weeks and looking for some tips that would let me function better. Religious upbringing and my neurotic nature make all of this really confusing and scary for me. Thanks in advance! Smile]]> <![CDATA[Open mind]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-59163.html Sat, 01 Jun 2019 20:05:01 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-59163.html I grew up with religion in a religious family.  I attended Methodist, something, Presbyterian, Church of Christ, then finally left high school and entered the world.  Over time, I "lost" my religious views. I'm rather open minded and curious about everything, including humanity.  It is my opinion that Life is far more complex than our current religions offer. I for one, am a proud human, even though things could be better. I can't see myself bowing down before any god just to secure a place for eternity washing that god's feet and singing his praises. No thanks. This is so confusing. I have lots to say about life, but no concept on how to explain things to you in a way that you will understand.  
I think we got everything wrong regarding religion.  No, I'm not crazy or insane. Just someone with an open mind, perhaps more so than others. Religious scholars say that there is a shred of truth in all religions. I agree with them. The people who wrote and compiled the current religions weren't stupid. They answered their current mysteries as well as they could with the knowledge they had.  Notice, all religions have a god... a rather nasty one in my opinion, and pretty much based on their current rulers and the power they had over the average citizen. Makes sense actually... the god had to rule with an iron hand...otherwise nobody would follow them.  I think we may...yes, may.. have had a creator at some point in time. I base this observation on how complex the average human is, and on how it would be almost impossible to give that creature the ability to reason.  It bogles my mind, so I went looking elsewhere for a possible explanation. In a nutshell, I think humans were seeded on the same meteorite that destroyed the dinosaurs. No, not a human... but our DNA. The meteorite used to be our previous planet... what happened to it? I dunno, but here we are. My second theory involves something that is mention in the religions but touched on very lightly.. mainly religions name it, but don't explain it. The soul. Instead of our DNA being brought in by meteorite, it brought some souls instead, perhaps both. Souls are an energy being, and for some reason, they don't have much mobility.. I know, now I'm confusing you as well..but I've given this a lot of thought and I think I'm on to something. At least, most of it can be proven thru scientific means if they ever get around to it.  Anyways, I've got other obligations, and I will continue my thoughts later. At least I may give you a laugh or two. Stay tuned. Lol]]> I grew up with religion in a religious family.  I attended Methodist, something, Presbyterian, Church of Christ, then finally left high school and entered the world.  Over time, I "lost" my religious views. I'm rather open minded and curious about everything, including humanity.  It is my opinion that Life is far more complex than our current religions offer. I for one, am a proud human, even though things could be better. I can't see myself bowing down before any god just to secure a place for eternity washing that god's feet and singing his praises. No thanks. This is so confusing. I have lots to say about life, but no concept on how to explain things to you in a way that you will understand.  
I think we got everything wrong regarding religion.  No, I'm not crazy or insane. Just someone with an open mind, perhaps more so than others. Religious scholars say that there is a shred of truth in all religions. I agree with them. The people who wrote and compiled the current religions weren't stupid. They answered their current mysteries as well as they could with the knowledge they had.  Notice, all religions have a god... a rather nasty one in my opinion, and pretty much based on their current rulers and the power they had over the average citizen. Makes sense actually... the god had to rule with an iron hand...otherwise nobody would follow them.  I think we may...yes, may.. have had a creator at some point in time. I base this observation on how complex the average human is, and on how it would be almost impossible to give that creature the ability to reason.  It bogles my mind, so I went looking elsewhere for a possible explanation. In a nutshell, I think humans were seeded on the same meteorite that destroyed the dinosaurs. No, not a human... but our DNA. The meteorite used to be our previous planet... what happened to it? I dunno, but here we are. My second theory involves something that is mention in the religions but touched on very lightly.. mainly religions name it, but don't explain it. The soul. Instead of our DNA being brought in by meteorite, it brought some souls instead, perhaps both. Souls are an energy being, and for some reason, they don't have much mobility.. I know, now I'm confusing you as well..but I've given this a lot of thought and I think I'm on to something. At least, most of it can be proven thru scientific means if they ever get around to it.  Anyways, I've got other obligations, and I will continue my thoughts later. At least I may give you a laugh or two. Stay tuned. Lol]]> <![CDATA[av had enough]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-59017.html Sun, 12 May 2019 06:59:10 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-59017.html i never want to enter a church or religious buildings again but i want to support my husband in going for membership 
but the minster of the church normally talk me into things i have christian friends and i love them so much  but i cant do it anymore had enough of this shit i need to do this for my own sake]]> i never want to enter a church or religious buildings again but i want to support my husband in going for membership 
but the minster of the church normally talk me into things i have christian friends and i love them so much  but i cant do it anymore had enough of this shit i need to do this for my own sake]]> <![CDATA[want a deeper conversation about atheism]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-58676.html Thu, 28 Mar 2019 20:08:34 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-58676.html
I grew up atheist / culturally Christian and never really thought about my beliefs that deeply and now have a few confusions. Is atheism like a religion in that one can not believe in god without there being proof that god does not exist, or must every belief be based in proof? I don't have a solid proof that god exists or does not exist, but don't believe in god. Maybe I'm just too dumb to have a proof that god(s) don't exist immediately offhand... 

What are peoples thoughts on this? Is there a way to logically argue that god does not exist or can one simply have a belief that god dose not exist?]]>
I grew up atheist / culturally Christian and never really thought about my beliefs that deeply and now have a few confusions. Is atheism like a religion in that one can not believe in god without there being proof that god does not exist, or must every belief be based in proof? I don't have a solid proof that god exists or does not exist, but don't believe in god. Maybe I'm just too dumb to have a proof that god(s) don't exist immediately offhand... 

What are peoples thoughts on this? Is there a way to logically argue that god does not exist or can one simply have a belief that god dose not exist?]]> <![CDATA[from independant fundamentalist baptist in bible belt florida to antitheist]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-56962.html Wed, 17 Oct 2018 21:22:43 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-56962.html
I am almost 35 years old and this deconversion happened about 10 months ago. It happened for the same reason so many had, and thats because I read the bible, but for me it wasnt the first time I had read it, it was merely the first time I read it with an open mind and doing so allowed me to find the folly of my lifelong beliefs.

Ok to explain my upbringing, I was raised by a mother was was baptist, and the only churches we would attend were independant fundamentalist baptist churches. It was in cape coral florida for the first 7 years of my life untill we moved to jamestown new york, and of course we joined the same denomination in this town. it was when I was sent to a boys home in florida, one which was later closed down for child abuse that I was grounded in the scriptures very hard core. During my 2 years there I had read the bible Gen-Rev 2 times straight through and I think we were in the gospels still when I ran away before I could a third time. I had even been forced to memorize almost 1200 verses from the KJV 1611 word for word and recite them with the threat of getting beat if I didnt, this was part of some of the practice we did there was memorize an amount of scripture and recite it by the end of each week, or there would be consequences.

This boys home was in panama city florida, and we traveled off the property to every state and attended many religious get togethers including camp meetings, missionary conferences, revival meetings, tent meetings. We did this to raise money as missionaries do for support, we would sing in front of congregations and they would take offerings for us during the services and write monthly checks to support us. We usually had on average on the days around 8-10 boys at a time. Well  ran away from this boys home because it was a mental and physical hell.

Anyways, I had never once missed a single sunday morning, afternoon, and wednesday night servce ever untill I moved out of my mothers home, but still on my own I attended my local baptist church. Well late last year I decided to abandon the baptist faith because I began realizing they were taking much scripture out of context, and thier "once saved always saved" belief was wrong, the scripture clearly states that there are sins that automatically gives a hell sentence, and some verses say you are in danger if you commit certain sins.

So I had decided to abandon the baptist denomination and rely on god for understanding while reading the scriptures remembering the verse "if any of you lack wisdom lack him ask of god......and it shall be given him". So thats what I did, I decided to start over in the new testament and read with an open mind, to take everything litterally what jesus said, and if I was confused I would pray and ask for wisdom on the subject and what happened was very unexpected. I wanted to know how and what a person was to do to be saved, and stay saved throughout life. I end up finding out there was no one single way of being saved. I found jesus contradicting himself on this subject, claiming works, being baptised, being super righteous, and of course just having faith which contradicts the first several I mentioned.

What put the nail in the coffin with christianity is when I ran into james chapter 2, which funny enough I have the first 2 chaters memorized anyways, basically james flat out calls jesus a lair by telling the listeners that we are not to be decieved, that by works a man is justified, not by faith only, and the entire verse 14-26 emphesizes on this, that works have always been reuired along with faith. This completely discredited jesus when jesus said "for by grace are ye saved through faith and not of works, lest any man should boast". Jesus said he doesnt want us to rely on works at all for a reason, yet james said the opposite, and since james knew jesus and his teachings, to say this is no different than calling jesus a flat out liar. 

I had enough contradictions between jesus and the apostles, I realized there was no way this jesus story could be credible if there were so many contradictions. I was always taught, and even believed the KJV 1611 was the perfect word of god, and in fact was the only translation that was inspired by god, and even went as far as being taught that other translations of the bible were of the devil lol.

My journey these last several months have been a ride, finding out how very wrong christianity is, and in fact I decided to learn about culture and religion around the world and throughout history and I have gotton to see the bigger picture, and I see now why religion as a whole is a lie, and cannot believe how so many humans have lived and died in the name of religion. Both people having sacrificed pleasures in life for the sake of thier religion, people who have suffered in the name of someone else's religion, and people killed for the sake of religious laws, and killed for practicing a false religion. saddens me.

I have been hell bent on youtube for these last several months to poke trillions of holes everyone I can find them in youtube videos, and I seem to have become very efficient at it, i get hundreds of likes all the time so I must be leaving some kind of impression LOL. Its thanks to first, knowing the bible as well as I do, and well rounding my knowledge about reality as well such as the truths behind the theory of evolution which im still leanring about thanks to aronra, and other sciences, and other subjects. Its helped me get a good picture painted about reality and of our history as a species, both physically and socially.

Thats my intro. feel free to ask me any questions, ide be happy to talk more about myself if you would like. Im not rebutting anything I mentioned here, we can do that in another part of the forum. I just wanted to find an atheist community today to get to chat and discuss things in. I got youtube videos to finish trolling in before the day ends lol.]]>
I am almost 35 years old and this deconversion happened about 10 months ago. It happened for the same reason so many had, and thats because I read the bible, but for me it wasnt the first time I had read it, it was merely the first time I read it with an open mind and doing so allowed me to find the folly of my lifelong beliefs.

Ok to explain my upbringing, I was raised by a mother was was baptist, and the only churches we would attend were independant fundamentalist baptist churches. It was in cape coral florida for the first 7 years of my life untill we moved to jamestown new york, and of course we joined the same denomination in this town. it was when I was sent to a boys home in florida, one which was later closed down for child abuse that I was grounded in the scriptures very hard core. During my 2 years there I had read the bible Gen-Rev 2 times straight through and I think we were in the gospels still when I ran away before I could a third time. I had even been forced to memorize almost 1200 verses from the KJV 1611 word for word and recite them with the threat of getting beat if I didnt, this was part of some of the practice we did there was memorize an amount of scripture and recite it by the end of each week, or there would be consequences.

This boys home was in panama city florida, and we traveled off the property to every state and attended many religious get togethers including camp meetings, missionary conferences, revival meetings, tent meetings. We did this to raise money as missionaries do for support, we would sing in front of congregations and they would take offerings for us during the services and write monthly checks to support us. We usually had on average on the days around 8-10 boys at a time. Well  ran away from this boys home because it was a mental and physical hell.

Anyways, I had never once missed a single sunday morning, afternoon, and wednesday night servce ever untill I moved out of my mothers home, but still on my own I attended my local baptist church. Well late last year I decided to abandon the baptist faith because I began realizing they were taking much scripture out of context, and thier "once saved always saved" belief was wrong, the scripture clearly states that there are sins that automatically gives a hell sentence, and some verses say you are in danger if you commit certain sins.

So I had decided to abandon the baptist denomination and rely on god for understanding while reading the scriptures remembering the verse "if any of you lack wisdom lack him ask of god......and it shall be given him". So thats what I did, I decided to start over in the new testament and read with an open mind, to take everything litterally what jesus said, and if I was confused I would pray and ask for wisdom on the subject and what happened was very unexpected. I wanted to know how and what a person was to do to be saved, and stay saved throughout life. I end up finding out there was no one single way of being saved. I found jesus contradicting himself on this subject, claiming works, being baptised, being super righteous, and of course just having faith which contradicts the first several I mentioned.

What put the nail in the coffin with christianity is when I ran into james chapter 2, which funny enough I have the first 2 chaters memorized anyways, basically james flat out calls jesus a lair by telling the listeners that we are not to be decieved, that by works a man is justified, not by faith only, and the entire verse 14-26 emphesizes on this, that works have always been reuired along with faith. This completely discredited jesus when jesus said "for by grace are ye saved through faith and not of works, lest any man should boast". Jesus said he doesnt want us to rely on works at all for a reason, yet james said the opposite, and since james knew jesus and his teachings, to say this is no different than calling jesus a flat out liar. 

I had enough contradictions between jesus and the apostles, I realized there was no way this jesus story could be credible if there were so many contradictions. I was always taught, and even believed the KJV 1611 was the perfect word of god, and in fact was the only translation that was inspired by god, and even went as far as being taught that other translations of the bible were of the devil lol.

My journey these last several months have been a ride, finding out how very wrong christianity is, and in fact I decided to learn about culture and religion around the world and throughout history and I have gotton to see the bigger picture, and I see now why religion as a whole is a lie, and cannot believe how so many humans have lived and died in the name of religion. Both people having sacrificed pleasures in life for the sake of thier religion, people who have suffered in the name of someone else's religion, and people killed for the sake of religious laws, and killed for practicing a false religion. saddens me.

I have been hell bent on youtube for these last several months to poke trillions of holes everyone I can find them in youtube videos, and I seem to have become very efficient at it, i get hundreds of likes all the time so I must be leaving some kind of impression LOL. Its thanks to first, knowing the bible as well as I do, and well rounding my knowledge about reality as well such as the truths behind the theory of evolution which im still leanring about thanks to aronra, and other sciences, and other subjects. Its helped me get a good picture painted about reality and of our history as a species, both physically and socially.

Thats my intro. feel free to ask me any questions, ide be happy to talk more about myself if you would like. Im not rebutting anything I mentioned here, we can do that in another part of the forum. I just wanted to find an atheist community today to get to chat and discuss things in. I got youtube videos to finish trolling in before the day ends lol.]]> <![CDATA[Did I "Convert" to Atheism? Not Really]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-56128.html Fri, 17 Aug 2018 13:34:22 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-56128.html
But Church was something everybody did in Australia in the 50's and 60's because the Country would literally close at weekends, so it was Footy on Saturday and Church, which was also the major social outlet, on Sunday.

But as I said I just did it because everybody else did and dutifully read the Bible, which turned out to be one of the reasons I drifted eventually drifted away. I did not believe the bloody thing.  The other reasons for stopping were Marriage, a hectic job, then a mortgage, then kids.  Life got in the way of what I always felt was suspicious, and later felt was a complete fiction, and apart from Weddings and Funerals, have not been inside a Church for over 40 years.

I am not a Capital A atheist, and my atheism is not even an important part of my life.  It just IS. And Australia is a pretty laid back place, very forgiving of most beliefs that are not extremist, so the subject rarely comes up in real life.  As one example, when I started becoming bored in my retirement, I started doing volunteer work for a Religious (Uniting Church) based Food and Material relief organisation.  I was there 8 years and my atheism was never an issue.

So, such as it is, that is my "conversion" story.  It's late, so time for bed.

Norm]]>
But Church was something everybody did in Australia in the 50's and 60's because the Country would literally close at weekends, so it was Footy on Saturday and Church, which was also the major social outlet, on Sunday.

But as I said I just did it because everybody else did and dutifully read the Bible, which turned out to be one of the reasons I drifted eventually drifted away. I did not believe the bloody thing.  The other reasons for stopping were Marriage, a hectic job, then a mortgage, then kids.  Life got in the way of what I always felt was suspicious, and later felt was a complete fiction, and apart from Weddings and Funerals, have not been inside a Church for over 40 years.

I am not a Capital A atheist, and my atheism is not even an important part of my life.  It just IS. And Australia is a pretty laid back place, very forgiving of most beliefs that are not extremist, so the subject rarely comes up in real life.  As one example, when I started becoming bored in my retirement, I started doing volunteer work for a Religious (Uniting Church) based Food and Material relief organisation.  I was there 8 years and my atheism was never an issue.

So, such as it is, that is my "conversion" story.  It's late, so time for bed.

Norm]]> <![CDATA[Conversion - De-conversion *Long*]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-53641.html Wed, 28 Feb 2018 15:52:22 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-53641.html
I was exposed to critical thinking, science, various philosophy, cultural anthropology, ect., in college but never decided to question my religious beliefs. (again to my embarrassment)  However, my religions beliefs, during this time, were receding to the rarely used depths of mind and possibly loosing some certainty if I had thought to look at them. But, now we must necessarily take an unfortunate turn on the road of life.

Most of my adulthood has been particularly difficult. Family issues, bi-sexuality, drug abuse, and  risky behavior in general played major roles in this difficulty and also, I think, kept me away from the church or even thinking about religion and god . Details are fuzzy but I can honestly say that I did not take religion seriously during this time. The exception being ‘fox hole’ prayers and pleading with god during times of crisis or pain. I vividly remember telling my NA sponsor, over the phone, that I was an atheist, as I waited in a gas station parking lot for the dope man to arrive.  At the time, I used the word atheist more for shock value than its actual meaning. I did not want to hear anything about how I was doing the wrong thing in gods eyes whether it was true or not, so it was easier to just say I didn’t believe any of that bullshit and it usually shut them up.  This generally sums up what I believed until we get to the next stage which I hope you find interesting if not amusing. Oh, and if you are still reading, pat yourself on the back, you deserve it.  Rolleyes

Many of you might have guessed or indeed know from experience that drug abuse doesn’t just go away, it’s not something you can grow out of like jnco jeans or wearing ladies underwear... Of course, the drug abuse got worse and I found myself at a rehab “ministry” in the mountains of North Carolina.  This program is faith based and was not my first choice or even on the list but there was no waiting and the price was right.  So, off I went with the intention of just making it through the program and not assimilate into any of the religious nonsense. That’s not what happened.  The program lasts 12 months including church twice a week, devotions every morning, and some kind of spiritual activity every evening except for Saturdays. I never saw it coming; by the 8th month I was a born again, holy roller, servant of Jesus.  HALLEJUJAH!  PRAISE HIM!!   I believed, a lot, and fuck you in particular for not believing. I was ready to spend the rest of my life in the service of god. If you want to cringe a little, read that last sentence again and know that is was the truth.  In fact, I had already taken the first steps towards working and living in ministry.  Looking back, I think its safe to say that my experience is a testament to the power of indoctrination.  Not that I had any special intellectual powers that allowed me to resist brain-washing;  it didn’t occur to me at any time that brain-washing was exactly what was happening.

A bible verse was the flash point for my de-conversion and my desire to defend christianity was the catalyst.  The senior pastor at church recited what he called “a failed prophecy,to some people”  but of course he wasn’t talking about his audience, he was talking about most of you, you wicked ,wicked heathens.    (Matthew 24:34 if you care)  He explained why it was not a failed prophecy using the most graceful theological aerobatics I had ever heard.  I wanted more. Fortunately, my critical thinking skills were re-emerging, about to save me from a lifetime of enslavement. I looked at every “failed prophecy” I could find and had several what the fuck moments that slowly chipped away at my certainty.  Unfortunately it wasn’t like flipping a light switch. Six months past during which I consumed many books, many more debates, lectures, and conversations with non-believers and believers alike.  And now, we get back to familiarity at this point in the story so I wont bore you, if I haven’t already.  Eventually, I conclude that there is no reason for me to believe in a god and no longer accept christianity or super-nature.

I am still clean today and have been for years. I appears that I didn’t need god to save me from addiction after all.
Be gentle.   I'm new here Group Hug]]>
I was exposed to critical thinking, science, various philosophy, cultural anthropology, ect., in college but never decided to question my religious beliefs. (again to my embarrassment)  However, my religions beliefs, during this time, were receding to the rarely used depths of mind and possibly loosing some certainty if I had thought to look at them. But, now we must necessarily take an unfortunate turn on the road of life.

Most of my adulthood has been particularly difficult. Family issues, bi-sexuality, drug abuse, and  risky behavior in general played major roles in this difficulty and also, I think, kept me away from the church or even thinking about religion and god . Details are fuzzy but I can honestly say that I did not take religion seriously during this time. The exception being ‘fox hole’ prayers and pleading with god during times of crisis or pain. I vividly remember telling my NA sponsor, over the phone, that I was an atheist, as I waited in a gas station parking lot for the dope man to arrive.  At the time, I used the word atheist more for shock value than its actual meaning. I did not want to hear anything about how I was doing the wrong thing in gods eyes whether it was true or not, so it was easier to just say I didn’t believe any of that bullshit and it usually shut them up.  This generally sums up what I believed until we get to the next stage which I hope you find interesting if not amusing. Oh, and if you are still reading, pat yourself on the back, you deserve it.  Rolleyes

Many of you might have guessed or indeed know from experience that drug abuse doesn’t just go away, it’s not something you can grow out of like jnco jeans or wearing ladies underwear... Of course, the drug abuse got worse and I found myself at a rehab “ministry” in the mountains of North Carolina.  This program is faith based and was not my first choice or even on the list but there was no waiting and the price was right.  So, off I went with the intention of just making it through the program and not assimilate into any of the religious nonsense. That’s not what happened.  The program lasts 12 months including church twice a week, devotions every morning, and some kind of spiritual activity every evening except for Saturdays. I never saw it coming; by the 8th month I was a born again, holy roller, servant of Jesus.  HALLEJUJAH!  PRAISE HIM!!   I believed, a lot, and fuck you in particular for not believing. I was ready to spend the rest of my life in the service of god. If you want to cringe a little, read that last sentence again and know that is was the truth.  In fact, I had already taken the first steps towards working and living in ministry.  Looking back, I think its safe to say that my experience is a testament to the power of indoctrination.  Not that I had any special intellectual powers that allowed me to resist brain-washing;  it didn’t occur to me at any time that brain-washing was exactly what was happening.

A bible verse was the flash point for my de-conversion and my desire to defend christianity was the catalyst.  The senior pastor at church recited what he called “a failed prophecy,to some people”  but of course he wasn’t talking about his audience, he was talking about most of you, you wicked ,wicked heathens.    (Matthew 24:34 if you care)  He explained why it was not a failed prophecy using the most graceful theological aerobatics I had ever heard.  I wanted more. Fortunately, my critical thinking skills were re-emerging, about to save me from a lifetime of enslavement. I looked at every “failed prophecy” I could find and had several what the fuck moments that slowly chipped away at my certainty.  Unfortunately it wasn’t like flipping a light switch. Six months past during which I consumed many books, many more debates, lectures, and conversations with non-believers and believers alike.  And now, we get back to familiarity at this point in the story so I wont bore you, if I haven’t already.  Eventually, I conclude that there is no reason for me to believe in a god and no longer accept christianity or super-nature.

I am still clean today and have been for years. I appears that I didn’t need god to save me from addiction after all.
Be gentle.   I'm new here Group Hug]]> <![CDATA[About me]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-50200.html Thu, 27 Jul 2017 06:45:46 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-50200.html
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]]>
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Link removed for violation of 30/30 rule. Please familiarize yourself with our rules, and welcome to AF.
]]> <![CDATA[I'm baaaaccckkkk]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-49336.html Sat, 10 Jun 2017 02:44:08 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-49336.html  Cower brief mortals, for I have returned  FSM Grin

*Actually I was just having a lurk but Jack caught me and told me in no uncertain terms that I'm not allowed to leave again. Tongue
Shit... I've put this in the wrong forum....
Shit... I've put this in the wrong forum....]]>  Cower brief mortals, for I have returned  FSM Grin

*Actually I was just having a lurk but Jack caught me and told me in no uncertain terms that I'm not allowed to leave again. Tongue
Shit... I've put this in the wrong forum....
Shit... I've put this in the wrong forum....]]> <![CDATA[What made you change your views?]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-48813.html Mon, 01 May 2017 15:51:23 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-48813.html
If you dropped your religious, conspiracy or pseudoscience beliefs, what made you change your views? I know it is usually very long and complicated journey, but try to zoom out on the main factors.

I am also interested whether any kind of ridicule / poking fun / comedy or calls for self-deprecation played any role?]]>
If you dropped your religious, conspiracy or pseudoscience beliefs, what made you change your views? I know it is usually very long and complicated journey, but try to zoom out on the main factors.

I am also interested whether any kind of ridicule / poking fun / comedy or calls for self-deprecation played any role?]]> <![CDATA[From Islam to Atheism]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-48013.html Fri, 03 Mar 2017 14:32:20 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-48013.html
 
  As a kid I was moderately religious didn't take things seriously but from the ages late 14 to early 16 I devoted myself to Allah, I prayed all the 5 prayers every single day but couldn't help but to masturbate. I remember as a kid that playing with yourself will make you pee yourself , get STDS , AIDS, UTI and you will suffer from testicular or prostate cancer and heart disease. At around 16 1/2 I started praying less fasting less in ramadan but I still labeled myself as a muslim and then I started to see how corrupted most muslim majority countries are and how terrorism spreads so fast like a virus. One time our religious teacher and many imams used to tell us that music is haram in islam , pleasuring yourself and dating and I started to question why are these things that make you feel good restricted in islam is islam supposed to make your life easier and make your live a happy life, but I still did these things except I never found a girlfriend . Anyway I was taught that the only true religion is islam , but then I saw other religions like christianity and judaism claiming themselves to be the true religion, this has got me thinking if every one of them claims it's true then which one is the right one? What if islam was wrong? Why would god send people to hell for just having different beliefs ? If the koran states that who wants to believe , they believe, if they want to disbelieve , they are free , then why do apostates get killed for just leaving islam ? Why do they get negative reactions from their family members ? Why is there a lot of intolerance for non-muslims? And when I used to discuss about murder my family didn't give a sh!t and used to tell me it's wrong to kill, but when I used to talk about sex they would reply astaghfurallah meaning that this is evil and from satan and I was like wtf killing and stealing is much worse than fornication and adultery,and why do women have no rights in islamic societies as well as judeo-christian societies, why do they have to cover up and also islam views women as sex objects .

  
  At 17 I came across hell and started to think critically about hell it is the most ridiculous concept I've heard for not following a certain rule or praying etc , it is also stated in the koran that God created life and death and the good and the evil to test your deeds but the test is very limited and you would burn in hell if you were bad for ever and also if god knows everything then he knows who is going to hell and who is going to heaven and he doesn't want us to do the sins , then why doesn't he make us not do it? When I read the koran or the bible god resembles a human who wants you to recognize him abide by his rules , obey him , to thank him . Also why are many innocent children in Africa dying from malnutrition and is making the rich happier the middle class struggle , why was I a social outcast in middle school and get bullied even If I prayed to god ? And if there was a god he wouldn't be that cruel and not approve this right? This made me become an atheist . Also evolution makes a lot more sense to me because I've experienced observation like how the monkey is similar to the human being , and how taking antibiotics changes the structure of the bacteria and how every human looks different from the other,and "If God created us then who created god?". This is how I became atheist.

 
  I am a 22 year old living in Lebanon it's still better than her Arab neighbors but society is religious I don't want to shove my secularism down other people throat because I know how it feels to have some religious zealot doing it to you another thing is that only some of my close friends know that I'm an atheist but I would never let my family know about it also I don't hate religion I think it could bring mental and psychological support for the poor and unfortunate but I also know poor and unfortunate secular people who choose reason and logic over faith. , I want to encourage freedom of expression , speech, belief, and thought . Also people must have the right to have freedom from religion. I apologize for my poor English skills as I learn it as a second language.]]>
 
  As a kid I was moderately religious didn't take things seriously but from the ages late 14 to early 16 I devoted myself to Allah, I prayed all the 5 prayers every single day but couldn't help but to masturbate. I remember as a kid that playing with yourself will make you pee yourself , get STDS , AIDS, UTI and you will suffer from testicular or prostate cancer and heart disease. At around 16 1/2 I started praying less fasting less in ramadan but I still labeled myself as a muslim and then I started to see how corrupted most muslim majority countries are and how terrorism spreads so fast like a virus. One time our religious teacher and many imams used to tell us that music is haram in islam , pleasuring yourself and dating and I started to question why are these things that make you feel good restricted in islam is islam supposed to make your life easier and make your live a happy life, but I still did these things except I never found a girlfriend . Anyway I was taught that the only true religion is islam , but then I saw other religions like christianity and judaism claiming themselves to be the true religion, this has got me thinking if every one of them claims it's true then which one is the right one? What if islam was wrong? Why would god send people to hell for just having different beliefs ? If the koran states that who wants to believe , they believe, if they want to disbelieve , they are free , then why do apostates get killed for just leaving islam ? Why do they get negative reactions from their family members ? Why is there a lot of intolerance for non-muslims? And when I used to discuss about murder my family didn't give a sh!t and used to tell me it's wrong to kill, but when I used to talk about sex they would reply astaghfurallah meaning that this is evil and from satan and I was like wtf killing and stealing is much worse than fornication and adultery,and why do women have no rights in islamic societies as well as judeo-christian societies, why do they have to cover up and also islam views women as sex objects .

  
  At 17 I came across hell and started to think critically about hell it is the most ridiculous concept I've heard for not following a certain rule or praying etc , it is also stated in the koran that God created life and death and the good and the evil to test your deeds but the test is very limited and you would burn in hell if you were bad for ever and also if god knows everything then he knows who is going to hell and who is going to heaven and he doesn't want us to do the sins , then why doesn't he make us not do it? When I read the koran or the bible god resembles a human who wants you to recognize him abide by his rules , obey him , to thank him . Also why are many innocent children in Africa dying from malnutrition and is making the rich happier the middle class struggle , why was I a social outcast in middle school and get bullied even If I prayed to god ? And if there was a god he wouldn't be that cruel and not approve this right? This made me become an atheist . Also evolution makes a lot more sense to me because I've experienced observation like how the monkey is similar to the human being , and how taking antibiotics changes the structure of the bacteria and how every human looks different from the other,and "If God created us then who created god?". This is how I became atheist.

 
  I am a 22 year old living in Lebanon it's still better than her Arab neighbors but society is religious I don't want to shove my secularism down other people throat because I know how it feels to have some religious zealot doing it to you another thing is that only some of my close friends know that I'm an atheist but I would never let my family know about it also I don't hate religion I think it could bring mental and psychological support for the poor and unfortunate but I also know poor and unfortunate secular people who choose reason and logic over faith. , I want to encourage freedom of expression , speech, belief, and thought . Also people must have the right to have freedom from religion. I apologize for my poor English skills as I learn it as a second language.]]>